Those who dare enter Lorien

[mark12_30]

Going to Faerie is different than having someone from Faerie visit you. Gandalf doesn't bring Faerie. Gildor brings a taste of it, but I doubt that Frodo, Sam, & Pippin stopped aging when they were with him.

If they ahd stayed for a month with Tom Bombadil, would they have aged then? I wonder.

[Lalwendë]

If Men went into Lorien (and they were probably either too busy elsewhere or too scared to do so), then they would likely have come out of there altered and somehow 'other'. Look how the place affected the members of the Fellowship, and they were more or less made welcome there. A Man might come out at best bewildered and at worst, changed.

It's a familiar tale in folklore and mythology, the mortal who enters Faerie and comes out many, many years later (the traditional time scale seems to be seven years later, whereas he feels he has been there for just one day) quite altered. It's also a familiar motif, the idea of a place that's far too perilous to enter because of the faeries - see Stardust and Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell for two good examples of it in modern literature.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If Men went into Lorien (and they were probably either too busy elsewhere or too scared to do so), then they would likely have come out of there altered and somehow 'other'.

We do know that Aragorn went there. That's where he and Arwen formally 'plighted their troth": at Cerin Amroth. That's another entire discussion, isn't it? Aragorn grew up in Rivendell; visited Arwen (and Galadriel) in Lorien, at least twice.

Since Aragorn grew up in Rivendell, my guess is that Lorien would have less of an effect on him than it would have on, say, Forlong the Fat.

We saw what effect Lorien had on Boromir. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the effect Lorien would have on Faramir? Or Imrahil?

Or Denethor-- a frightening thought.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

We do know that Aragorn went there. That's where he and Arwen formally 'plighted their troth": at Cerin Amroth. That's another entire discussion, isn't it? Aragorn grew up in Rivendell; visited Arwen (and Galadriel) in Lorien, at least twice.

Since Aragorn grew up in Rivendell, my guess is that Lorien would have less of an effect on him than it would have on, say, Forlong the Fat.

We saw what effect Lorien had on Boromir. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the effect Lorien would have on Faramir? Or Imrahil?

Or Denethor-- a frightening thought.

Aragorn is very 'other' though, isn't he?

I wonder if it was the Elven (and Maiar) blood which coursed through his veins which made him better able to cope with the effects of Faerie? Or was it his upbringing in Rivendell (even though Rivendell is a welcoming place for Men)? Even so, when we go with Aragorn to Lorien on the journey of the Fellowship, he speaks of the place with huge reverence, so even he is not fully immune

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Going to Faerie is different than having someone from Faerie visit you. Gandalf doesn't bring Faerie. Gildor brings a taste of it, but I doubt that Frodo, Sam, & Pippin stopped aging when they were with him.

If they ahd stayed for a month with Tom Bombadil, would they have aged then? I wonder.

Good point.
But Tom Bombadil's house isn't Faerie. Or is it? The debate goes ever on and on, down from the book where it began, now far ahead the debate shall go, over.......

The thing is Tom Bombadil is more "down to earth", so I think that rather than stay the same in the way of elves and Maia, like "beings from above" they'd be more like the earth, changing, getting older, maybe very slowly but still getting older. Or maybe they'd age in the way of seasons, so every year they'd get older quicker than normal, but then be younger again in the spring.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Good point.
But Tom Bombadil's house isn't Faerie. Or is it?

Oh, where is Littlemanpoet when I need him. I think Tom does just as much preserving and protecting, without a ring, as Elrond and Galadriel do with a ring. Very much Faerie, very changeless. And amazing that the ring has no effect on him: makes no change in him.

The debate goes ever on and on, down from the book where it began, now far ahead the debate shall go, over.......

Nice!

The thing is Tom Bombadil is more "down to earth", so I think that rather than stay the same in the way of elves and Maia,.

Ah, but I would have called him an "Earthy Maia." He's so Yavanna-ish, or perhaps Melian or... you know. In terms of interest, and caring, and encouraging things to be what they are and ought.

.

like "beings from above" they'd be more like the earth, changing, getting older, maybe very slowly but still getting older. Or maybe they'd age in the way of seasons, so every year they'd get older quicker than normal, but then be younger again in the spring.

Oh, that's a delicious thought... very interesting.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

the mortal who enters Faerie and comes out many, many years later (the traditional time scale seems to be seven years later, whereas he feels he has been there for just one day) quite altered

My favorite is George Macdonald, who does things like:

Originally Posted by George Macdonald

The Golden Key
She turned and looked him full in the face—stood so for a whole minute, as she thought: it was a whole year...