Are Orcs That Bad?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I guess a quick summary if you want to skip all that, the Orcs in LOTR seem different in several ways than Morgoth's Orcs.

First of all, welcome back to posting (haven't seen you around for a bit).

Second, I don't really think Morgoth's Orcs and Sauron's Orcs differed at all; what is definitely different was the caliber of enemy they faced. The Eldar and Edain were certainly greater warriors than the fading Dunedain in Gondor (and many Gondorions probably could only claim limited Dunedain bloodlines), and the Rohirrim. Even the Dwarves of the 1st Age were greater than their 3rd Age counterparts -- at least weapon and armor-wise -- after all, Azaghâl and his dwarves didn't back down from dragons; whereas the Dwarves of Erebor were soundly thrashed by Smaug. Plus, Morgoth didn't rely as much on Orcs as Sauron. After all, Morgoth's heavy hitters were Balrogs, dragons, trolls and then the Orcs coming...ummm...up the rear. And Morgoth was absolutely victorious against greater foes (until the Valar cavalry had to be called); whereas Sauron won many battles, but lost nearly every war he conducted.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I wanted to toss out some more things about Orcs and their possible redemption, but I must be off. I guess I will throw this out there, for when I do get a chance, but I was thinking about Orc women. Tolkien confirms in Letters (and it is consistant with the Silmarillion) that Orcs reproduce like the Children of Iluvatar, and thus there had to have been Orc women. But, alas, he doesn't entertain us with how orc childhood was like (under Sauron's regime). Did the Orc women stay at home and nurse their younglings...complete with a pleasant tomato garden and a white picket fence? (Eeh, that seems a little difficult to believe, and also tomatoes had no place in Middle-earth...hmm maybe cabbage).

Tolkien didn't mention tomato-tending Orc matrons who not-so-tenderly breast-fed their bawling brats (OWWW! those fangs!) because it's obvious Tolkien did not want to evince sympathy for Orcs. Tolkien was not one to offer multi-layered villains in his stories. If you were evil, you get no sympathetic rendering. Evil in Middle-earth always gets punished, doesn't it? Only if you atone, like Boromir, do you get the sympathetic touch (but then, of course, you must die anyway, sorry). Morgoth, Eol, Maeglin, Saeros, Feanor (he paid, precious, yes he did), Caranthir, Celegorm, Curufin (throw in Maglor and Maedhros as well), Mim, Turin (Tolkien's one great anti-hero), Sauron, Ar-Pharazon, Castimir the Usurper, the WiKi, Mouth of Sauron, Saruman (unrepentant up to the end), Denethor (he lost whatever sympathy he could have mustered), Gollum, etc., no one pays off the judge or has a get-out-of-jail free card (except perhaps Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, who gains sympathy in spite of herself).

No one gets to amass riches, kill wantonly and then retire to a seaside resort on the beaches of Umbar (like in real life).