Valar / Greek and Roman gods

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wispeight

I simply came upon a hesitation toward delving into the interpretation of middle earth on this forum. The reason is not my possessing a low esteem of the members of this forum, but rather the wide spectrum of beliefs. I think that approaching this subject begins to narrow the focus. So, on this one thing, it is probably best for me to just leave 'middle-earth alone'.

Look, wispeight, you're really going to have to work harder at communicating with us plebs.

Again, what do you mean by "interpretation of Middle-earth"? Are you asking what or where it is supposed to be?

Or do you wish to discuss possible symbolism in the story?

Either way, the fact that nobody else happens to be talking about what you're interested in at a given time doesn't mean it's a forbidden topic. Why not start a thread?

[wispeight]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Look, wispeight, you're really going to have to work harder at communicating with us plebs.

Again, what do you mean by "interpretation of Middle-earth"? Are you asking what or where it is supposed to be?

Or do you wish to discuss possible symbolism in the story?

Either way, the fact that nobody else happens to be talking about what you're interested in at a given time doesn't mean it's a forbidden topic. Why not start a thread?

~~~

I've been obtuse and pretentious to the point where I've made 'myself' sick. So I don't even want to imagine how I reflected onto others here. So I will come clean. For at least two decades, I've come across the phrase 'middle-earth' more times than I can count. I hesitate to say that I finally know what it means, because that indicates conclusion.

An acceptable explanation I've come across, happened because I became thoroughly fascinated with Theosophy. I suppose sharing the explanation for the phrase would not be considered proselytizing, but I would have preferred nonetheless that someone else jumped in with the explanation.

Did anyone notice that I still didn't cough it up? I'm bad.

You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying

[Morthoron]

'Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their marks
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.'

Since this thread has passed the point of obnubilation, I might as well reply lyrically.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by wispeight

~~~
Did anyone notice that I still didn't cough it up? I'm bad.

That, I think is painfully clear to all of us who have read your verbose, obscure and ultimately pointless posts. So why don't you? You feel better afterwards. After all, this is a forum where we discuss ideas.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I have a suggestion - instead of questioning someone on a post which is not only obscure, but also off-topic, why don't we just get back to the subject of this thread?! Thanks!

[wispeight]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

I have a suggestion - instead of questioning someone on a post which is not only obscure, but also off-topic, why don't we just get back to the subject of this thread?! Thanks!

~~~~~~~~~

Middle-Earth can be discerned as integral to the Valars. Not realizing this can thus give one the opportunity to make assertions that I am off topic and obtuse. But a lot can also be said about assertions.

[Nerwen]

I give up.

[Gwathagor]

Let's see...

Manwe - Jupiter
-lightning, winds, storms, eagles, etc.

Varda - Juno
-queen, associated with light

Tulkas - Mars
-fighting

Mandos - Pluto
-dead people

Ulmo - Neptune
-water

Aule - Vulcan
-smith, craftsman

I think those are all the really close comparisons, and they're all pretty obvious. The other Valar only resemble Greco-Roman deities in one or two characteristics. Vaire, for example, weaves, like Minerva/Athena, but that's as far as the similarity goes.

[wispeight]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I give up.

~~~

I'm done. I also apologize. I didn't want to volunteer my understanding of how Middle Earth might be interpreted. I was fishing to see if someone else would have a similar understanding to mine, without submitting mine first.

I'll stick to the surface of things when I post here.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Which part of

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

get back to the subject of this thread

is not clear?!

Any further posts (and perhaps past posts as well) that do not concern comparison of the Valar with Greek, Roman or other gods, angels, etc. or something closely related to that will be deleted without further notice. If you have personal questions or comments to individual members, please take them to PMs. Thank you.

[wispeight]

Abstract/concrete thought has not been used properly by this user.

I will speak plainly and be concrete from here on. I knew about the Ramayana but have not put any length of attention to it. However, I come across relavent text that appears to compare with valars. I'll paste it below.

"Many are the legends of the hero who descends along a bridge "narrow as a thread and sharp as a knife blade" to rescue the pure maiden. The noble Sir Gawain bridged the torrents under water to gain the love of a beautiful princess entrapped in the realm below. Such tales describe a passage into the womb of Mother Nature who strives to swallow up any who cannot outwit her craft. The Great Mother yawns as an abyss in consciousness and must be spanned and mastered by the piercing quest of the enlightened mind. Out of the great oblivion, the daughter of Chaos must be awakened and drawn forth into co-existence with the magus mind. Perhaps the most beautiful rendering of this noble venture is found in the Ramayana where Hanuman, the monkey king, vows to Rama to build of himself and his own kind a bridge to rescue the innocent and pure queen Sita. Hanuman speaks:

O'er the deep sea where monsters play
A bridge, O Rama, will I lay;
For sharer of my father's skill
Mine is the power and mine the will.
Command the Vanar hosts to lay
Foundations for the bridge today."

What I induce in regard to the hero descending along a path, narrow as a knife blade, to rescue the fair maiden, is the inner journey to reach the spiritual soul.
I think many written texts, palimpsests, manuscripts, which speak of great armies and great conflicts are about this inner quest.

When we have actual conflicts among nations on this physical plane, it will of course be recorded for the sake of preserving history, but to glorify or romanticize the killing of a human who is the foundation of a multi-leveled microcosm, a universe in miniature, to find honor in this, is an abomination.

[Andsigil]

Given the love Tolkien had for the Finnish language, I'm surprised that people have omitted the Finnish deities, as well as the heroes of the Kalevala, from their comparisons here and stuck mostly with Greek and Norse comparisons.