The Straight Road

[Nogrod]

Adding to the the wealthy examples by Morthoron, I'd say that in the simple plane it would be easy to just state there is a one-way traffic-line there. Whether someone from the Middle-Earth was approaching, who was not permitted the seas would just arise and prevent them from getting anywhere - and the same would go for any of the "blessed" who would try to to reach the M-E as there would be no admission without a special purpose (like Gandalf geting back wherever it was he was while "dead").

Originally Posted by Lal

Afterwards, the earth was curved and if you set sail from Middle-earth's western shores you'd just eventually come back to the eastern ones (presumably a bit thirsty and as bonkers as the Ancient Mariner by then).

That kind of brings to my mind the then (and now) hot debates over quantum physics, the possibilities of wormholes, the parallel universes, the curved universe with relation to the Einstein's speculations which Tolkien must have known...

The idea surely is an interesting one - and it has this "down to earth" -explanation available even if the physical science professionals wouldn't allow it - where the world actually goes around itself and gives you the the round globe; but on another plane the laws would be different and you only have access to them through those wormholes / parallel universes etc... And linking them with old myths about "moving to a different plane" would fit the mythologial structures of the worlds of every conceivable nation or tribe living up north about 1000 AD or before that...

Kind of a stuff Robert Holdstock used later?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Letter 325 (just about the whole thing) says:

The ‘immortals’ who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman. . .set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of those lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched on of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth’s surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those few ‘mortals’ who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the ‘History of the world’ and could play no further part in it.

The angelic immortals (incarnate only at their own will), the Valar or regents under God, and other of the same order but less power and majesty (such as Olórin=Gandalf) needed no transport, unless they for a time remained incarnate, and they could, if allowed or commanded, return.

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer ‘immortality’ upon them. Their sojourn was a ‘purgatory’, but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.

This general idea lies behind the events of The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, but it is not put forward as geologically or astronomically ‘true’; except that some special physical catastrophe is supposed to lie behind the legends and marked the first stage in the succession of Men to dominion of the world. But the legends are mainly of ‘Mannish’ origin blended with those of the Sindar (Grey-elves) and others who had never left Middle-earth.

From that description of the transit, it does sound, in science-fictional terms, like some kind of interdimensional shift, vanishing from the physical world of Arda to another plane of existence. It seems that if you don't have the right ship or don't have permission, you just keep sailing along in the water and remain on the earth. One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

I have somehow always felt that Frodo reached Aman without incident -- possibly because he did dream of his arrival there long before he even knew it would ever happen, or what it was he saw in his dream, but also possibly because it felt like a classic heroic end. Not the attainment of an eternal paradise, but the bestowing of a reward, a sort of cosmic "even of the scales," to offset all he had suffered in struggling to achieve the onus that had been laid upon him. It seems to me that in most legends and myths, the end of the hero's journey is never wholly a "happily ever after" situation; either the "paradise" achieved is not perfect, or the road to it was so fraught with trials and tragedies, it could only be a bittersweet reward, at best.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

From that description of the transit, it does sound, in science-fictional terms, like some kind of interdimensional shift, vanishing from the physical world of Arda to another plane of existence. It seems that if you don't have the right ship or don't have permission, you just keep sailing along in the water and remain on the earth. One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

In the classic mythological sense, attaining the shores of Faery (or Aman, Hy Brasil, Avalon, etc.) has its own sanctions, permissions and prohibitions (and seemingly, Tolkien subscribed to the classic fomulae). For instance, you can reach there with luck or permission, but you can usually never return; doing so will result in the breaking of a prohibition, and the sanction is usually something dreadful (Ossian, for instance, aged to the point of death while he was talking to St. Patrick, and poor old Rip Van Winkle also returned from his trip into the mountains so aged that every one he knew had died years before). Earendil was not allowed to return to Arda, save aboard his ship, which stayed aloft among the heavens, and the Numenoreans paid for breaking the prohibition against mortals setting foot in Aman with their lives.

As far as Frodo, his description of the silver curtain lifting to me infers passing through a portal into another plane of existence (he and Bilbo of course received permission, or intercession from Galadriel and Arwen).

[skip spence]

I also adore the straight road.

Originally Posted by Lal

So, would a ship set sail and then suddenly hit a secret point known only to Elves/Ainur at which point it departs normal existence and enters another dimension/plane? Or is it that the ship would hit a point where it enters a kid of static world which is unchanging, almost like going through a wormhole? And does being able to find the Road depend upon knowing where it is? Upon being able to see it? Or upon having permission?

You could picture the Straight Road like a bridge of water I guess, leaving the curvature of the earth and heading straight towards "heaven". But being rational-minded I see many problems with this analogy from a scientific viewpoint. In the letter Ibrin quoted, Tolkien wrote that a keen-eyed observer from shore would have noticed that a vessel heading towards the West never became hull-down, indicating that it was indeed on the Straight Road, and not following the curvature of the earth. But what if that keen-eyed observer were on look-out from a ship on a parallel course with the hallowed ship, far off but just within sight of it? Would he then observe the Elven ship slowly taking off and eventually heading off towards the firmament like Eärendil? What if they sailed towards it then? And what if a shrewd man unnoticed managed to tie a very long rope to the fin keel of a ship heading for Aman, and attach his small boat to it, thus being towed on to the Straight Road. Would this free passenger make it to the utmost West? But now I'm being silly. I suppose you can't see rationally upon something which essentially is miraculous.

I suppose the Straight road could be seen as a true road into a world unspoilt, the world as it was originally meant to be. And as the road is straight the old world must also be flat of course. That's funny, isn't it? Our round earth revolving around the sun is really a second best in Tolkien's mythology. In the good old days the world was flat as a pancake. Reading HoME X however, it seems Tolkien (for a while at least) wanted to represent this belief as a mannish misreading of the original Elvish sources and not a true account of history. It's a good thing nothing of this made it into the published Silmarillion though.

Originally Posted by Ibrin

One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

I imagine that Frodo would would not have witnessed the ship leaving the water or a passage through a portal or anything of the kind. I just imagine it to have been a long sea journey without any direct point of transition, although I certainly imagine a gradual transition into a more fairie-like world, you know, with a Lórien-like shimmer to it. Eventually they would come within sight of the Tower of Avallone and know they were on the right course.

(must stop although I don't feel quite finished)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Talk about planes of existence is extremely interesting. The following thoughts occur to me now.

The blessed lands were not before on a different plane, and I don't think they became so. How can you remove part of the world (Valinor) to a different plane, and what does that mean? Physical removal? Surely that would completely rupture everything, with remarkable geological effects in both Middle-earth and Valinor.

I think that once a thing (e.g. land) is created for a particular plane it cannot later be attuned to a different one.

Intellects, though, can 'see' different planes. The Valar, I am sure, could experience separate modes of reality. This is perhaps touched upon with the Ringwraiths, and their being able to experience different 'worlds' -- which could be thought of as planes of existence.

I tend to think there was simply a magical trick played on the mariners: the gods of the sea, if you will, threw them off course; and they guided those permitted into the blessed realm. I don't think it was anything to do with separate planes, because separate planes, to me, imply substantial metaphysical alteration, and the idea of the blessed realm as becoming a sort of VIP club just seems more plausible.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So what would happen if Galadriel, or some other who was permited to sail into the west, sailed towards Aman, not knowing that Merry had hidden on board?

Would they both be rejected, both be permited acces or would the boat snap in two.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The blessed lands were not before on a different plane, and I don't think they became so. How can you remove part of the world (Valinor) to a different plane, and what does that mean? Physical removal? Surely that would completely rupture everything, with remarkable geological effects in both Middle-earth and Valinor.

And yet, that's exactly what happened. The story is, after all, a myth, and the myth is accounting for what previously appeared to be a "flat" world being reshaped into a globe (which Tolkien says in various letters and such is what was meant by "the world was bent" in the Akallabeth, and the effect was indeed catastrophic to both Arda and Aman). In the letter I quote above (which is not the only place he speaks of this), he does indeed say that he meant that during the events that resulted in the destruction of Numenor, Aman (Valinor and Eressea) was physically removed from the world. It is clear in his writings that he means ripped away from a direct physical connection with Arda (the earth) by not removed from existence within Ea (the universe as we know it). The elven ships, by his description, simply continue to sail in a perfectly straight and level line away from the earth's curve and then disappear, entering the West. At this point, basic science can no longer apply; we need to enter the realm of theoretical thinking, which by post-Einsteinian theory allows for the existence of multiple dimensions (or planes, in some parlance). If the ship remained within our dimension to travel to a place disconnected from Earth (like, say, the moon), it would then face problems with gravity, escape velocity, air, etc. Since this doesn't appear to be the case, and the ship is said to simply "disappear" rather than dwindle until it is no longer able to be seen by any naked eye, the extrapolation that it somehow shifts into another dimension of existence would appear to follow.

That's the way I saw it, anyway, for what it's worth.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting post as usual, Ibrin. I have not read Tolkien's letters (I know, I know... ) and am just speculating about what makes sense to me. Whether the logic works, etc.

On that note, why bother with the curve? If the blessed realm was to become another plane or dimension, whatever you want to call it, why not just make it so where it stood? Surely it wouldn't matter to everyone else where it stood in their plane. They couldn't reach it anyway.