Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Boromir88]

Legate's ringing ye olde suspect alarm. Your attack against a filibuster just seems too creepy. I mean really all I'd expect is something like Diamond...No filibuster because it's silly. But you use it as a weapon of fear:

I will stand by the side of those who prefer freedom of speech and freedom of vote without being restrained by some Phantom-a-likes.

And one thing to make it clear. Mr. P. is not getting my vote as a Representative, no way.

Playing a part, or hiding behind your part, Legate?

[Boromir88]

Luckily Form hasn't graced us with his presense in this village, he'd have two day 1's to harp about.

Why so anxious for us to give the wolves ideas, Phantom?~Shasta

Let's see what our options are...either do what the phantom says, or we continue to play with and throw a bunch of bull crap at eachother (literal and figurative). I'd prefer the former.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Why so anxious for us to give the wolves ideas, Phantom?

Because I'm the Cobbler! Mwu ha ha!

But seriously, I just want to know the lines that people are thinking along. It helps me get to know them.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Does it make more sense to set a different speed limit for every driver? Really?

Well maybe not for everyone, but they should at least have the decency to make a different one for me.

And Di- no filibuster? I never would've expected such an early stand on the issue from you.

Originally Posted by Di

Also, tp is a werewolf because it would amuse Fea to make him one.

Yeah, they always say that when I'm in one of Fea's games.

And guess what? It's never happened.

Just fyi, I was a WW in the last game I played. And in the game before that I was a Wizard. And it is possible that I requested specifically to be an Ordo in this village in hopes that it would cause the village to take up less of my time. Just food for thought.

Ah, Ka, quite right- I left the "s" off of that pronoun, didn't I? Won't happen again.

Originally Posted by Boro

Once you're set, aint nothing getting through that head of yours.

Yeah, yeah... I know. But often times that is good, as it keeps me from being led astray.

Originally Posted by Legate

all he will do is that he will be stopping the votes from going the way that seems wrong for him.

Yes, Legate, that's exactly what a filibuster is. Stopping things from going a way that you don't think is favorable. So the fact that I would use a filibuster for its precise purpose hardly seems like news worth reporting.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

Legate's ringing ye olde suspect alarm.

Indeed.

You go in my good book for today, for thinking similarly.

Now- off to work. I'll be back in about five hours and should be around the rest of the day.

[Boromir88]

Yeah, yeah... I know. But often times that is good, as it keeps me from being led astray.~the phantom

I never said you didn't have a steel spine. When we need efficiency, and a tough choice, you execute and have the spine to face the Music. But sorry in a representative I don't want someone with their own mind, I want someone with my mind. If it just so happens that we follow the same path, well then you sir would be at the top of the list. Actually it would be more of just getting under Legate's skin and making enemies with 75% of my fellow congress people.

Before I forget...

++No filibuster

for me...realizing that we each only have one and I would hate to waste it. The temptation to be the first would be way too strong, I don't have the willpower of Gandalf to resist the urge. Or maybe I'm just not some washed up moral compass.

[Boromir88]

Oh also, I had just this really strange dream about filibusters last night, I was the last vote, and allowed a filibuster...then the phantom capitilized and blocked my vote.

[Thinlómien]

Hello everybody.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Anyone have theories on the WW rep-voting behavior?

I think they might just lay low and vote innocents as representatives because it's more probable that a village lynches an innocent anyway.

Originally Posted by tp

Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

I would like to second those who said "no one". It seems obvious to me.

Originally Posted by tp

The more I think about it, the more I think we should not have any set target for number of reps.

I agree with this. What purpose does a set number of representatives serve? No purpose that I can see.

Originally Posted by Legate

I know it may be fun to have filibustering, and I say, all right. I am also for trying it some day. But not today. We need a smooth start, so that we can get the ship of state rolling.

This is something I disagree with. If we really have to try filibustering, why not toDay when there's (probably) the least action and the smallest chance of lynching a wolf? It would do the least harm toDay, which is why I haven't voted against a filibuster yet. I don't like filibustering at all, I can't see it serving any purpose but chaos-creating (and maybe having fun, but we can have without an official filibuster, can't we?), but I understand it kind of has to be tried in this game, so I will let you children play with it today.

Just fyi, I was a WW in the last game I played. And in the game before that I was a Wizard. And it is possible that I requested specifically to be an Ordo in this village in hopes that it would cause the village to take up less of my time. Just food for thought.

Surely it's possible - I even recall you told me when we were wolves together that you'd have preferred to take it easy and be an ordo. But I don't like you bringing up this point at all. If you really did request so, it's rather unsporty of you to say it aloud. And if you didn't, that's a rather stupid trick. And at any rate, who says Fea would have fulfilled your request?

All in all, phantom makes me a little suspicious. He's too all over the place, he says some silly things and posts sometimes plain nonsense. Why?

Also, Diamond's overtly confident manner troubles me a little.

Others who have posted this far didn't ring any alarms on the first reading.


edit: xed with Borox2

[Boromir88]

Some words on voting and representatives...

The good news is we now get to look at twice the amount of votes (I have a feeling Nogrod's going to be busy). The bad news is, we now get to look at twice the amount of votes.

Because the truth is, I think I said something like this last time, votes are overrated. Personally, I hate them, any one, wolf or not, can manipulate their vote in whatever way they please. They are taken as such "hard evidence" when really, what's always served me the best has been reacting and striking conversation with people. I wish I had the phantom's spine, I'll tell you that.

So, phooey on the actual vote, they're overrated. The timing and placement of a person's vote, well now see that can unlock the Area 51 conspiracy.

[Nogrod]

77 posts before I even get online... I think I'm slowly getting to understand morm's usual whining about people posting a way too much in these games.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Some words on voting and representatives...

The good news is we now get to look at twice the amount of votes (I have a feeling Nogrod's going to be busy). The bad news is, we now get to look at twice the amount of votes.

Whatever you Boro think about analysing the votes - which I myself have found many times the most enlightening thing to do - there will be the fact that in this game the nature of the votes for the representatives will be very different from the actual votes of the representatives themselves - and those votes to lynch will also be different from normal lynch-votes.

The one thing I'm afraid though is that a wolf elected as a representative may hide her/his motives behind the "popular support" - as someone already said that s/he would like to see the rep vote her/his way, not the rep's own way!

So I would call for giving independence to the representatives as if they only follow their voter's wishes they are not accountable on their votes for lynching. If you don't like the way your representative acted you should vote for a different one the next Day.

Which brings me to my thoughts about the way the wolves might think. That I think is somewhat an unproductive question as there are of course different wolves as there are players playing this game differently. As a wolf tp would like to fill the place, filibuster and manipulate from the bottom of his heart (does it have one?) while I could see someone else wishing to stay away from being elected a representative as it is a bit too open and windy place to be. So I'm afraid there's no clear pattern we could be trying to look after...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The one thing I'm afraid though is that a wolf elected as a representative may hide her/his motives behind the "popular support" - as someone already said that s/he would like to see the rep vote her/his way, not the rep's own way!

So I would call for giving independence to the representatives as if they only follow their voter's wishes they are not accountable on their votes for lynching. If you don't like the way your representative acted you should vote for a different one the next Day.

Yes, especially the second paragraph boldened and twice underlined!! Because, among other things, otherwise, all this complicated Rep-system would be worth nothing. End to demagogues and hypocritical "Men of the People"! When you are voted for a Representative, show your worth! When we already have this Republic here, so let it be worth it! And those who fail your trust, into the waste with them - you can vote somebody else! This is the point of this whole system, or so I gathered - so let it be used to its fullest, so that we have something from it!

[Nogrod]

It is clear enough that all the people with clear conscience - with the possible exception of the seer - will vote for a representative someone s/he thinks has a good judgement and can bring down a wolf or whom s/he thinks is a wolf that could slip under pressure being forced to make a decision on the lynch (or whom s/he would just like to find out in this game - as to see how s/he performs).

As I come to think of it, this game actually seems to favour the wolves as they can hide behind voting "just" for a representative and are thus not forced to vote every Day for a lynch, if not consistently voted a representative. Looking at the brighter side we will have twice the time to discuss things everyDay and the new dynamics might even help us here on the latter parts of the Day to counter the balance back.

But what will be something like a central issue in this game later on after we get some actual data of people behaving in different ways in different stuations & actually voting - and I'm looking forwards to it as it looks like a challenge indeed - is how we should judge the way the wolves will vote and how they will do it in the end.

(Hah, I said this was an unproductive topic and here I go... )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Playing a part, or hiding behind your part, Legate?

Not playing any part, actually. Formulated in more common talk, I am really not willing to give the phantom the post of a Representative - not now, at least. It is Day 1 and I am not only hanging on my previous promises, so to speak, but I am also unwilling to give votes to certain people as Reps, for now, and among them is Mr. P. for the simple reason that he's too wilful, to use the right adjective, that I won't give my fate into his hands - not yet, at least, until he is proven by the test of time. If he proves to work well for the intentions of this village, I am going to be the first one to nominate him. But for now, I am not ready yet to give my vote to him. That has nothing to do with his possible wolfishness or not, that works just for the best interests of the village as I see it. We need strong Representatives, who have the intentions of the people in mind, and not just their own.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I agree with this. What purpose does a set number of representatives serve? No purpose that I can see.

Setting up a number is of course nonsense, we cannot say "we will have X Representatives" and then try to make it the way that we end up with this number. But I think this talk about the numbers is not completely pointless, as it can help us stop and think for ourselves and giving us one more thing to consider when voting: "Okay, I want to vote either X or Y for a Rep, but I see we have already six Representatives who have two votes, and one of them is X. And by voting Y, I am about to bring another Rep there with my vote, but I don't want such a high number of Reps, so I will vote rather for X than for Y." Something like that, I hope you get the point (of course in the example I am leaving out the things about X possibly getting four votes etc, but the example was aimed just on the number of representatives).

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

This is something I disagree with. If we really have to try filibustering, why not toDay when there's (probably) the least action and the smallest chance of lynching a wolf? It would do the least harm toDay, which is why I haven't voted against a filibuster yet. I don't like filibustering at all, I can't see it serving any purpose but chaos-creating (and maybe having fun, but we can have without an official filibuster, can't we?), but I understand it kind of has to be tried in this game, so I will let you children play with it today.

Well, yes, for fun, perhaps, but I presume there will be time when it will be used seriously, sooner or later (Wolves' effort to stop a vote, some Gifted's effort to save himself etc.). My point was that if we get stuck toDay, we'll start from nothing toMorrow, and then again... But hey, people don't have to agree with me. This is why we have democracy here

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Because the truth is, I think I said something like this last time, votes are overrated. Personally, I hate them, any one, wolf or not, can manipulate their vote in whatever way they please. They are taken as such "hard evidence" when really, what's always served me the best has been reacting and striking conversation with people.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think they might just lay low and vote innocents as representatives because it's more probable that a village lynches an innocent anyway.

The votes which are actually positive are A) the votes of the Wolves for the Representatives (e.g. when we have a known wolf and see his votes, or when we have a known wolf who was a Rep and we see who voted for him), B) the votes of the Representatives who are Wolves for the people - or the votes of anybody who is a Representative, for that matter. However, what Lommy said is worth considering, as it may be

A) either the way I said in my first post, and the Wolves would just try to manipulate the village
B) or what Lommy suggested, that the Wolves would just lay low and see how it goes, or just see the innocent Representatives lynch innocent people and laugh at it. That is a good point, and I find the possibility of this simply abhorrent. Although it is not as abhorrent as it seems, because:

1. There will most probably be some Wolves from the ranks of the more active players, who just could not keep their mouth shut and will get among the Representatives without own effort just because of their own popularity, thus, being brought into the spotlight the high politics bring one into;
2. I think some Wolves would at least find it unsettling to leave the resumée of who is lynched just on providence, sitting back when in the front there is a debate who is going to be lynched, may not be even bearable by one's nerves. Although, on the other hand, one can always press on fellow Reps to do this or that, it is not exactly the same as when you are sitting there.

(And for further reference, just preventively, if my expression seemed kind of theatral to somebody or whatever, know ye that all I say here is my personal opinion, maybe with a style a bit differing from common talk, but heck, we speak for the Republic here. I am sometimes using some phrases, but the meaning behind them stays - it is what I wish to convey. I just cannot resist to use kind of exalted language at times. But there is no more roleplay in my style than there is in a cup of coffee.)