Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Ilya]

Shasta: Thanks for that, and Aganzir: very sorry, m'dear.

The Villanous Voters
Shasta...voted for Nerwen
Kath...voted for Boro
Rune...voted for Morm
Lommy...voted for Nerwen
Nerwen...voted for Lommy
Eonwe...voted for Lommy
Aganzir...voted for Boro
Morm...voted for Aganzir
Greenie...voted for Morm
The Ka...voted for Lommy

The Unseemly Undecideds
Phantom
Ilya
Gil-Galad
Boromir88
Nogrod
Brinn
Gwath
Sally

The Reprehensible Representatives
Mormegil
Boromir88
Lommy - with three votes
Nerwen

The three votes thing worries me a little, but at the same time we need more reps...Herm. I was planning on voting Rune, but now I may give it to Boro, so that there's someone else with equal weight whose judgement I'm inclined to trust. I have notes now on most everybody, except tp. Post is forthcoming.

Edit: Phantom beat me to making a list, but I daresay my titles are snappier.

[Brinniel]

Hmm....as of now I'm thinking of voting for Kath as my rep. I agree with a lot she has to say and I feel her posts seem more innocentish than not.

I might vote soonish, which I admit is unusual for me since I tend to procrastinate until last minute. But I've been extremely exhausted these past days and I don't know if I have the energy to stick around until deadline. Better to vote early than risk missing deadline.

[Ilya]

Shasta - Kinda defensive lately and agreeing a lot with morm. I can follow his logic, though, and my read-through didn't give me any definite thoughts one way or the other.

Kath - Strikes me as very agreeable, though that doesn't imply innocence. Would like to see her as a rep, and what would happen then.

Rune - I am unsettled by the son of Bjarne's idea that one rep with a lot of power would be a fun thing to try. But his other logic is good, and he isn't giving off any bad vibes.

Eonwe - His posts seem a little whacky, but that does seem to be his style, from what I've gathered. He stays noncommittal and posts nothing of substance tomorrow, though, and I'm going to start getting suspicious.

Aganzir - I still have this gut thing against Agan, although at the time I think her posts were running together with Legate in my head, and the thing with Lommy seems more harmless than not. However, I do not like the implication she made about a rep not voting and irresponsibility today (521). These aren't sacred offices or anything but reps do have an obligation. As to throwaway votes, it's not a bad way for a shy wolf to act - everything's all tied up, so I'm just gonna go Nader. Or, you know, the phantom and his brand of jokery. I guess, in short, voting is important, and anyone who says otherwise bothers me.

Greenie - At the risk of bandwagoning again, I haven't seen anything that strikes me as suspicious.

Phantom - Not finished with my read of all his posts yet, but it was him who either misunderstood or stirred up the "weak" rep argument with Legate that lead to the whole Legate 180 thing. I'm inclined right now to think it was the former.

Lommy - Again, what most concerned me was the thing with Agan, which I had mixed up with with some posts of Legate's and tp's. Never really suspected her, though, and all her stuff since also seems genuine.

Gil-Galad - Initially, I thought the thing with Shasta might've been staged, but on my read today I think Gil was genuinely confused. Not much else to go on with him, either, so he's innocent until I see something that says otherwise.

Boromir88 - I trust him so far.

Nogrod - I...I just don't follow Nog's arguments. At least he's being consistent in his perplexing nature, though, voting for Gwath because Gwath's confidence in him had sinister "possible intentions behind it" and now voting for Boro, despite Boro going after him, and despite not trusting Boro. I had trouble following Legate, though, and maybe it's just a style thing that's making Nog hard to read. I mean, I feel like a wolf wouldn't be this blithe. But all this contradictory stuff...consider my eyebrows raised.

Brinn - Brinn and Agan circle voted for each other, and and her reasons for voting for Legate were, well, no better than mine, although I'd like to know why she felt compelled to vote for one of the players who already had a vote when there were still many undecided reps. I'm not exactly suspicious, just watchful.

Sally - Very successful...I believe the term is submarine? Hasn't been much in the posts for me to look at.

Haven't done Morm, Nerwen, The Ka, or Gwath yet, but I've got other stuff to write tonight, so I'll have to hold off. The Ka, I think, is kosher. The other three smell slightly of pork.

++Rune for Representative
I'd like to see another new face and I feel like Rune has a reasonable, and reasonably funny, voice.

Oh, and what does the term x'ed mean? Just curious.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will like to thank all the people that have voiced a desire to see me as a Representative and the one who have actually voted for me.

I know that I sometimes say things that does not goes too well with the general opinion, but I only try to do what is best for the village.

Anyways I just want to inform you that tomorrow morning (in 5 hours) I am going to a family birthday in Odense, but I will be back sometime in the afternoon and have plenty of time to hunt wolves.

[Brinniel]

Time to vote:

++Kath for rep

Originally Posted by Ilya

Oh, and what does the term x'ed mean? Just curious.

It means cross-posting with someone.

[Boromir88]

starting with why were you making some of those really shallow cases... like the one you stubbornly re-made even if I had answered it already?~Nogrod

You mean your answer to Gwath's contradictory vote? I stubbornly re-made it because you're answer to it was hogwash.

You said you didn't vote for Gwath because of his contradiction when voting for you. But in your post yesterday (labelling your reasons) you said his contradiction when voting for you as a rep was clear, and taking the devil's advocate approach it could look evil. Long story short, I'm saying you're answer doesn't match up with your reasons yesterday, and that is why I have harped on it.

(Oh and I guess I should clear up "balogna" see that is actually a kind of meat for sandwhiches/subs, I meant "baloney" as I didn't buy it, it didn't match up...etc. They are pronounced the same and I just got them confused. My bad...and I also realized that the deli meat is spelled "bologna" anyway. )

This is strangely parroting Lommy and Agan from yesterday.

Edit: crossed with Brinn

[the phantom]

Votes:
Lommy for Ner
Ner for Lommy
Agan for Boro
morm for Agan
KA for Lommy (2)
Green for morm
Eonwe for Lommy (3)
Rune for morm (2)
Kath for Boro (2)
Shasta for Ner (2)
Nog for Boro (3)
Ilya for Rune
Brin for Kath

Reps:
Lommy- 3 votes
Boro - 3 votes
morm- 2 votes
Ner - 2 votes

[Boromir88]

Who does that leave?

Shasta, sally, Gwath, the phantom, Gil and myself?

What do you think tp? You said you'd like to see Greenie, Kath, Agan, or Rune in there. Are you thinking about sticking with that? I've said I would like to see Greenie, Agan, or Rune (as far as Kath, I honestly don't know).

There's no reason to cross-vote, unless you want to put someone else with 3 votes to insure a tie won't happen?

Edit: oops scratch Shasta from above

[the phantom]

Let's see...

Agan, Kath, and Rune already have a vote, so I suppose it would make sense for me to vote for one of them.

As far as the tie scenario, we don't have to worry about that during this stage. It's up to the Reps not to allow a tie.

[Boromir88]

I highly doubt we're going to see sally, Gil, or Gwath before the deadline; I don't think it's a big issue.

I will say I think since they have refrained to vote, they have officially revoked all rights to complain about the reps.

++Aganzir for rep

I don't trust him at all at this moment but I want to check his cards whatever it leads to.~Nogrod

Keep it up and I'll vote for you first and give Fea the filibuster she's been oh so dying to have.

Now I'm going to bed.

[the phantom]

I'm leaning towards Kath. She said she'll be around the second half, and she has not yet been a Rep.

I have less of an idea about where she stands, so I'd feel safer going with Agan (as far as her lynching someone I'd like lynched), but if you're leaning towards making Agan a Rep already yourself then I'd like to give Kath a shot and see what she does. At the least I do feel that she is innocent.

EDIT: x-post Boro

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

(Oh and I guess I should clear up "balogna" see that is actually a kind of meat for sandwhiches/subs, I meant "baloney" as I didn't buy it, it didn't match up...etc. They are pronounced the same and I just got them confused. My bad...and I also realized that the deli meat is spelled "bologna" anyway. )

"baloney" actually does have its origin in bologna sausage so Mr 88 was actually on the mark - in theory (this is a purely a note on diachronic linguistics not on the accuracy of the term as used in context).

You may have heard that you can eat every part of a pig save the squeak ... originally it was scraps fat and the more obscure parts of the pig that were ground up to make bologna sausages (tofu anyone?) hence the metaphoric use of baloney to mean nonsense. Baloney is, as has been pointed out a phonetic spelling of bologna.

[A Little Green]

Now I'm back again, hello Nerwen (in case you are still around)! I was kind of hoping to see more than one post and one mod-linguistics post. Gah. It seems everyone except me and Nerwen is working or sleeping or just really boring. I'll try to find something useful to do about the game.

[Nerwen]

I'm here... looks like it's just you and me (...and the helpful ghost of Mithalwen...)

I said I was going to look at Nogrod and Boromir 88. I'm listing everything they've said to and about each other in three parts. I'll comment after that.

Day One, Part One (Election Day).

#87.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I concede that as a point in your column, a person voting for a rep will hold different information than a rep casting a vote.

"there will be the fact that in this game the nature of the votes for the representatives will be very different from the actual votes of the representatives themselves~Nogrod"

I disagree. I will pick someone who will represent my voice. Period. That doesn't mean we still can't hold people accountable for their own decisions, whether they said they were only going with their constituents or not. "Popular support" is a lame cop out, the person who best expresses their intentions, and his/her intentions fit best with mine, will be my representative. That's a heck of a lot different than me saying I'm going to pick the first person who will suck up to me, by agreeing with me, because you can't throw bull crap past this pig pen raker.

[rest of the post is a reply to Legate and Lommy.]

#127.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

[part of a much longer post]
Lommy I think first used the expression "weak reps" and "strong reps" and it looks like she meant ones with only little voting power or with a huge mandate (eg. the question on how many votes any certain rep has over the lynching) and then someone else (Legate, tp, boro...?) started to talk about the "strong reps" as someone who is trusted or influential or keeps her/his own mind or makes independent decisions etc. Or at least to me it looked like that.

#150.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[first sentence is a reply to Lommy]
When you signed up for this were you really expecting something different?

"Or maybe quietness is not the right factor but the kind of carefulness of some of us around. If we pick them as representatives they will have to take a stand.~Nogrod"

Hmm interesting...you should probably know by now that whether I'm a representative or not I'm going to be doing some heavy lobbying during the 2nd 24-hour period. I would also expect that from Legate, the phantom, and any of the other more vocal players. I can certainly imagine a quiet wolf, who is not a representative, slipping under the radar even more so then they would if we all just had 1 vote. In this way, it would make the less talkative bunch take a stand, and voice their suspects.

However, I don't fully like move for playing carefully and cautiously. Look, I take risks, that's what you're going to get from me, and if I'm a rep, that's what you're going to see. I don't think making somebody a rep will change their style a great deal, if at all. All it would really do is get a concrete vote out of them. But while the voting in the game will be different, I don't think the dynamics are going to change as dramatically as what some of you are making it out to be. The bottom-line is we have lots of well-honed WW people in this village, and it's going to come down to the same situations, do we have some quiet wolves who want to stay out of the spotlight, or some bold one's who like attention, or in all probability both?

I don't like playing it safe, and I've always found people who try to play it safe suspicious. Kath, Brinn, Rune, would make great reps, if they're innocent. The phantom, Legate, Nogrod, also would be great reps if they're innocent. See the point? Just because we have a different voting system now doesn't mean it's going to change someone's ability just by slapping on the "Representative" title.

#165.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[replying to phantom] I disagree, not in the way that it's wrong, but I would like to see that someone is not considered a viable lynch by the other representatives, solely for that fact that said person is a representative. Because, I would bet at least once in this village, wolves would elect one of their mates as a rep.

I think we're un-needlessly complicating the "Who I want as a rep" situation. I don't like the idea of putting a suspected/possible wolf as a rep, for the purpose of getting a concrete vote out of them. Nogrod, if you're not a wolf, I know you won't let the quiet ones slip unnoticed, and if you are a wolf, you still won't let the quiet ones slip unnoticed.

What's the reward here? I want someone who I trust is innocent, as well as someone who will represent my voice. That simple. We have an advantage in numbers, and the advantage of not allowing the wolves get control of who gets lynched. Yes, ordo's will make mistakes, but at least I know they mean for the best. Because the fact is, as hard as we could try to not get a wolf in as a rep, it's going to happen, period. That doesn't mean we should help them out and hand them the reigns.

[rest is asking whether the phantom will vote for him.]

#187.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

[part of a longer post, where he votes Ilya as rep.]
- Boro being sensible but being not sure about him. But clearly, lynching him on Day1 would be very bad playing indeed.

#196.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[part of a longer post.]
On Nogrod...it struck me odd at first why he wants to advocate the less-loud villagers as representatives, considering he usually goes after them. But, now it looks like an attempt to get more involvement out of the quieter ones. I just don't think it's going to work, because I don't think being a rep will change anyone's style. Also, if Nogrod can not be a representative, it could be an attempt to keep the power out of people who could potentially be dangerous for a wolf-Nogrod. What is Nogrod really up to? Care to answer?

EDIT: fixed quotes.

[Boromir88]

You treat him like a known innocent, and I'd love to know why.~Greenie

If I told you, I'd have to kill you. Ok, maybe not, but if I told you my reason I doubt you'd like it...I'd be getting into all kinds of history - but anyway, I don't see why a village wouldn't want an innocent tp and I won't let my paranoia that tp is an evil wolf manipulating everyone get in the way, at least not yet.

Or, if you want another reason, although probably not so good of a one, if tp was a wolf I would have been dead yesterday with how many seer hints I was dropping off. And even if someone wants to say, well maybe a wolf-tp didn't fall for it, tp would in no way have killed McCaber. None, end of story, either accept it or keep doubting it, doesn't bother me, but I'm not going to waste my time.

If we are talking about the "experienced veterans" click, this is certainly a good example. Why ask only phantom, why not ask the other four as well? Sorry, I just tend not to like this kind of phrasing.

And I don't like your editting job, keep reading, tp and I were the only one's around at the deadline. I was asking about his plan of action with the rep voting.

[Nerwen]

Day One Part Two (Lynching Day!)
#271

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[on Nogrod's vote for Ilya]
as I noted, if a wolf-Nogrod can't become a rep, it could be an attempt to keep power out of other vocal players who could be trouble for him. Also, it could be a way to get the wolves more involved in the voting, and he's simply masking it under the umbrella of "trying to get more info" from people.

Anyway, unless Nogrod, you want to tell me a secret you're hiding, you won't be getting my vote. I'll say it again...you won't be getting my vote - I want to stress that point, because I won't pull a Legate 180.

[rest of post is asking me and Shasta where we got the idea of a phantom/Legate/Boro triangle]

#375

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's getting just too late once again... so I try to do this quickly.

I have underlined those I will not vote for either thinking them innocent-looking enough or to be too valuable to us if innocents as to lynch them on too weak grounds this early...

Aganzir - argues innocentishly
Boromir88 - looks and feels genuine thus far
Brinniel - looks and feels genuine thus far
Diamond18 - her wish to be a rep and the following inattention to the game speak for innocence although the latter doesn't speak well of her gamer-morale...
Eönwë - a hard one for me everytime I play with him: could go either way
Gil-Galad - the enigma who is more often innocent than not - and gets things right more often than has been granted the honour of
Greenie - the sneaky one, my daughter... I never figure her out and thence am afraid everytime
Gwathagor - could be a wolf, could not be...
Ilya - looks and feels genuine thus far
Legate - I'm a bit worries of that possible pre-planned action but not enough to vote him toDay
Lommy - feels innocentish
Kath - she's not suspecting me! there must be something wrong in there... or then not; I'm slightly persuaded to wait and see
McCaber - the ultimate submarine: manages to post without no one having a read on him
mormegil - I do not like his recurring points on tp being very different this time...
Nerwen - looks and feels genuine thus far, although I'd love to see her post more
Rune - the enthusiasm of getting to be a representative speaks on his behalf - and the general feeling I get is more that of an ordo
Sally - very hard nut to crack but maybe more innocentish because of the level of her light-heartedness (she was a bit more focused the last time she was a wolf)
Shasta - could be a wolf, could not be...
The Ka - she's always hard for me to read and I tend to suspect her more than not
the phantom - could be a wolf, could not be...

#423

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[part of longer post; the bit I'm quoting is a reply to Nogrod's suspicion of Gwath.]
Gwath, I really think too much is being made out of his vote for Nogrod as a representative. The whole argument really doesn't make sense, maybe someone can explain it here. But, since Gwath gave the reason of choosing Nogrod, because he believed Nogrod would keep the quiet players on their toes, and since Gwath would fall into this category of "quiet" players so far, that makes him look suspicious? Sorry, but am I reading things correctly?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh, and so it is clear, I think I'm pretty much down between Legate and Agan. I will look through the stuff on Eonwe, but as far as Gwath, I don't see any reason to vote for him. Yes, Nogrod, that means I'm not buying your argument.

EDIT: x'd with Boro.