Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*concedes the point* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the kill only points to Nerwen. That's just my interpretation of his death.

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

Fair enough.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.

Also such an atempt might result in a filibuster and that would please fea.

Anyway about this proposed Boromir-Phantom alliance of doom, what if only one of them is a wolf? For instance I could imagine Boromir using The Phantom in such a scenario. Knowing that Phantom loves a bit of attention and jumps at every chance he gets to do something spectacular, Boromir would "attach" him self to him. . . The gain could be to hide in the open and in case he was discovered, he would most likely get Phantom killed as well.

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

Agreed, something doesn't quite feel right with Noggie in my opinion, although nothing sinister has jumped out at me there is a nagging gut feeling. I've played enough with him to get a different vibe from him this time, although the same could be said for you Rune, perhaps it's because you are not at my throat that makes it so you are sending off a different vibe.

I think that at least one of the Boro/phantom duo is a wolf and wouldn't be surprised if both are either. The double lynch is an interesting and risky idea. I'm not prepared to do that honestly. I would rather lynch Boro over phantom as I think if only one is a wolf I would think it to be Boro.

On Gil, is there any risk of mod-fire from lack of participation? I don' remember reading that but I find it highly aggrivating and totally irresponsible to do this.

Cross posted with a few.

[the phantom]

I think it's pretty much hilarious that some of you guys are suspecting me of Wolvery on the basis that I'm actually trying to do something to help the village (impact the WW kill to avoid the Seer).

What have you done for the village? Any ploys working for you? Had any ideas?

No. Of course not. You'd rather get all twisted out of shape because other people are actively fighting the Wolves in ways that you don't like for some reason.

Anyway, I'm home now and I'm catching up on the reading. I'll be giving some direct responses shortly.

[Boromir88]

I'll give you this too...I have a feeling Rune's gonna like this one;

In this game, I would gladly say take me, and not tp...but see if I gave that impression they (being wolves) would of course take the phantom.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts.

Oh, lordie. We're all going to die! *runs and hides*


Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.

[Boromir88]

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me.~Shasta

It's all in defense of the seer, Agan's done well, she has died with honour knowing there was a purpose. That's something that any innocent should want. Shasta, you may not like how I go about my business here, but you know first hand how effective it can be. I know when it doesn't work everything ends up blowing up in my face, but I've learned from the proceedings that I'm willing to go out and say the phantom, Nogrod, and Nerwen seem innocent. I may be completely wrong, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.~Rune

You would like that wouldn't you wolf-Rune. Some fun and fireworks while you get the two most active people lynched and out of your way?

[Boromir88]

Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.~sally

Thank you, I forgot to mention that in my last post...or at least Gil. The phantom tried to get Gil set up as a wolf-target but was forced to explain, thus rendering the plan useless.

Edit: crossed with tp. (by tp I mean Lommy); how I got those too confused no idea.

Oh and sally you're good in my book today.

[Boromir88]

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.~Lommy

I would look back on what you said back to day 1...

Which means I'm not going to vote anyone who seems too sane to be my representative.

I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::

Actually, I was serious, but I was merely talking about Day1 back then, if I recall correctly. Of course, what you say is always a good advice in these games...

edit: xed with morm

[Boromir88]

And Boro's flip-flopping more:~Lommy

You know as well as I do flip-flopping is not a crime, you're admittingly one of the biggest flip-floppers around, and yet always innocent.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rune

And in my despair all I could think about is how fun it would be to dubble lynch Boromir and The Phantom.

Don't make me a rep, or I'll be tempted... *evil grin*

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.

Also, I'm a bit worried about this "oh since Agan died Lommy must be innocent" stuff. I admit it's a logical conclusion but not so logical that this many people would have to agree with it. Something's fishy here.

And Boro's flip-flopping more:

Originally Posted by Boro

Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

First he admits trying to get Agan killed because he thought she was just an ordo, now he talks as if there had been obvious hints towards seerism in her posts... Getting caught in the web of your own lies, Boro?

Originally Posted by morm

Yes, you would only turn IF it benefits you and so far it has not.

I could echo this. Boro, do you deny that you could unashamedly ally with your fellow wolves if it benefitted you?

Originally Posted by Boro

Correct...but I would bet my life savings that at least either tp or I have already been dreamed of. And I would be my house (alright that's not as big of a gamble) that both of us have been.

I would take the bet, but I don't want to make you a poor man...

Originally Posted by Greenie

Especially phantom's way of answering every question concerning himself with "If you are innocent, you keep your mouth shut and concentrate on other issues" doesn't strike me as fair play, to be honest.

Agreed.

I would like to make a list now, and I'd also love to reread but this village is so loooooooong... and Greenie will surely want to post too sooner or later... hmmm...


edit: xed with Shasta, Rune, Sally and Boro

[Nogrod]

Okay. The way I see that chess match. I'm not yet saying I have a strong opinion who are the real players, I'm just trying to give a picture of what were the "seen" moves in the game and will give a few thoughts of it afterwards. And I do hope you will have your say about this as well!


Part I

1st move

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Aganzir is really bugging me... and I don't think it's just paranoia.
We have the earlier example of her persistant attack on Lommy, followed by a very sudden dropping of suspicion. At the time I thought I'd wait and see, as it could be either the action of a wolf who saw she wasn't getting any takers... or of an innocent who'd taken a shower and realised she been over-the-top.
...And then today we have another Legate 180 (or an approach to one, anyway), with yours truly as the subject.

...

She goes from seeing me as not very suspicious (but not wanting to dismiss me, based on her knowledge of me, which I think is fair enough) to deciding I'm guilty... based on the same evidence.
Huh?
Now, I don't think I'm being biased... Aganzir is being very erratic, and doesn't seem to feel the need to explain. I don't know what it means, since it seems too clumsy for an Aganwolf... but it's not something I can ignore either.

2nd move

Originally Posted by Boro

There you go Nerwen, putting us back to work.

Anyway, my thoughts, are Agan's harmless. Unless you're a wolf, because she's a pretty intense investigator and interrogator.

Edit: P.S. Oh great, I probably just signed Agan's death warrant now. Sorry my lady.

3rd move

Originally Posted by tp

If you did, then I'm going to be ticked. Seriously- if Agan's dead tomorrow I will attack you without mercy!

4th move

Originally Posted by Nerwen

While I'm at it, Boro, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you.

5th move

Originally Posted by Boro

No need, I'm going to move to strike this entire lame duck period off the record, and therefor it would have never existed.

Interlude by Daychange

Originally Posted by tp

So, I suggest that you stop giving me reading assignments, or so help me I'll start that Boro-Nog war I threatened and I'll back your opponent.

Which is pointing at this earlier post.

Originally Posted by tp

Tomorrow I'd like to see Boro and Nog go at it, and one of them lynch the other. That would be fun. We haven't had a full blown loudmouth war yet this game.

I believe that I will start off Day 3 by attacking both of them, and see if I can't get the village to jump on board.

Part II

1st move

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?

2nd move

Originally Posted by tp

So, Agan died. I'm sad, because I trusted her. Plus she's all smart and pretty and stuff.

Originally Posted by tp

Was there a trick involved?
Do explain. I love tricks.

3rd move

Originally Posted by Boro

Their trick to get me lynched, I want to see how they plan to work this one out.

4th move

Originally Posted by tp to Boro's move 3

How selfish of you. Assuming that the entire kill was based on lynching you! How arrogant. How self centered!
The plan was obviously to set up me to be lynched.

5th move

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, that was predictable.

6th move

Originally Posted by Boro

Feeling good about that one are you Nerwen? Why didn't you go for morm, he's been coming after you.

7th move

Originally Posted by tp about Nerwen's move 5

Hey, now, some of us are just now finding out the kill, and are still in shock. Not all of us knew several hours ago like you did, so just keep your snide comments to yourself.

8th move

Originally Posted by Ilya

No need to take that tone, tp. I could say it's arrogant of you and Boro to assume the kill was about getting one of you lynched. I don't get how that would work. Both of y'all trusted Agan. I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up. It'd be much easier to drive me to the gallows, since I've continually said I suspected Agan. That said, Nerwen, you're being odd and it's weirding me out.

9th move

Originally Posted by Boro

After defending her I said I probably just signed her death warrant...definitely makes it look like I knew too much.

10th move

Originally Posted by tp

Now, am I correct in assuming you said all of that about Agan because you were in fact setting her up to be killed during the Night?

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.

Oh my. This is a stupid endeavour indeed...

I mean the rest is there for you to see.

Bleurgh. I feel such an idiot at the moment, but I hope the compiling of the beginnings and how it went yesterDay helps...

I thought it was a good idea but turned out to be a Sisyfos-task.


And I seem to have crossposted with a lot of people so I'm leaving this here but will try to show a few points after I've read the latest.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

On Gil, is there any risk of mod-fire from lack of participation? I don' remember reading that but I find it highly aggrivating and totally irresponsible to do this.

I made the executive decision when he first showed up and claimed that he refused to read the rules that you guys get to deal with him. I'm staying right out of it.

[satansaloser2005]

The best choice for rep is obvious.



--Gil for representative






EDIT: I would have added something else to my 'nomination' but I figured it would get me modfired. Hehe.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I made the executive decision when he first showed up and claimed that he refused to read the rules that you guys get to deal with him.

I'm daring to believe this is good news looking at this game. It means we can count him within our numbers, that is when the tally is done.

But you who haven't played with him should also know that his history in WW hasn't been the most pleasant one to be honest as he tended to get lynched or killed everytime he played quite early with basically the same reasons he got picked on in this one...

Some of you of course didn't know that and I'm believing that was unintentional. But you might wish to send him a PM after the game? Just a suggestion...

[Nogrod]

So a few possibilities over that chess-game.


First Nerwen's initial answer to Agan looks pretty odd because of a few things.

First she tries to nullify it with the fact that Agan changed her mind during the Day. She indeed casts suspicion on Agan for doing a Legate 180 twice (with Lommy earlier) - while the original Legate 180 was an innocent one!
Secondly she still left it open, leaving reservations like it would be clumsy for an Aganwolf - which is true indeed.

But clearly it looks bad for Nerwen. She defends herself strongly (with bad reasons, look the first point above) not to get lynched but still tries to leave a considerate aftertaste to us others while preceeding to kill her at Night (point two), right? So Nerwolf thought that as Agan's case was so bad she could have been a seer? And therefore... end of story.


Second thing is the initial phase of the proposed "wolves should kill Agan" plot.

First of all Boro made his remark on "signing Agan's death warrant" as an "edit" PS. to the post. If it was sincerely an edit it would fit nicely with his subsequent post answering Nerwen's "threat" of starting to suspect him with: "I'm going to move to strike this entire lame duck period off the record, and therefor it would have never existed", so effectively backtracking from what he said? This interpretation would make Boro look wolvish and tp not. Also the status of Nerwen could be called into question. How about they (Boro & Nerwen) played it together? Nerwen says: "if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you". It's nicely articulated to be a wolf on wolf to be sure.

On the other hand, if Boro was using that "edit" and "PS." merely as a ploy and had intended to give that appearance trying to make Agan lynched for the good of the country as he was so secure she was not the seer? And then tp managed to get the plot in less than five minutes. Real heroes!

But correct me if I'm wrong. My feeling is that tp has claimed to be the mastermind of that plot and made a big number of it - not Boro. Still Boro made the first move if this is true... There is something too smooth in this story for me to believe.

Maybe tp got the idea from Boro's hasty PS. and Boro followed suit? If that is the case I'm really astonished and admiring your teamwork.


Okay. It seems there is a lot of posting and I'll have a break here...

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Rune

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind.

I'd have to agree entirely, I finally had time toDay to scan over two days worth of chatter (weekends are my longest hours, because my work knows I don't have any small children or other 'important' responsibilities to prevent them from doing so) and think about it at work and Nogrod is a bit too fluffy than normal. Whether he is a wolf or innocent, he's not as quick to join in what otherwise would be a normal Nog activity. Otherwise than him deciding to try a different tactic this game around, he seems more friendly than usual, even as a representative.

Originally Posted by phantom

EDIT: It's not nice. I'm not saying that. I feel bad about it. But sacrifices must be made. And I don't think there's any way we're going to kill the Werewolves with kindness.

Definitely, because they're enjoying the fact that everything is going too smooth already. Which would explain what looks like progress and reason on our end of things still turns up dead innocents on both voting groups. The only good thing so far is that the wolves are obviously still scratching around for the Seer.
If anything the wolves are counting on our 'kindness' to keep the dirty business of killing by Day easier so that they can spend more time on their Seer mission, the only saving grace is that our Seer is being crafty and laying low so even if we don't get anywhere, our Seer might.

One thing we need to remember is, there are only so many innocents before either parties hit a wolf or forbid, a seer. It's frustrating now because seriously, this game's progress reminds me of a completely sober version of musical chairs.


I'm hung on who I would like to see as a rep this time around, taking into account what obviously has become a normal game pattern. I'm going to go and read some more while I still have time.

~ Ka