The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

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Just a heads-up that the voting deadline (yes, there is a deadline now, check the op for more info) will pass in a little more than 2 hours at 12.00 AM board-time. Currently the standing is Sauron 5 Tuor 5. With no further votes Sauron will progress however as he was the first to reach 5. There's still a chance for you to change that though!

Originally Posted by Tuor

Oh, and Skip Spence, how could that great conversationalist and all around
bon vivant Smaug be left out of the contest?

There are so many interesting characters in Tolkien's works and some are going to be left out unless you add a round. The next step for an expansion would be 64 participants however and I think that's too many. As it is Glaurung is in but Smaug isn't. I have been known to give in to popular demand though and I do take bribes.

[skip spence]

That's it, Tuor is eliminated. It was close but Sauron will tell him that it matters not whether it's by inches or a mile, winning is winning.

Moving on to Match 5 of round 1 we have Bilbo "Mad" Baggins, The Hobbit himself, versus Fëanor's eldest son Maedhros, torn between his noble intentions and the Oath he took.

Bilbo Baggins vs. Maedhros

Voting will be allowed until 12.00 Am tomorrow board time.

[Thinlómien]

There is no question here!

++Maedhros

He might be my favourite Tolkien character ever. Like I said already, I tend to like Tolkien's less black-and-white characters. I don't particularily like baddies since they tend to be too evil, heroes are often too pure and perfect for me, morally ambiguous "grey" characters often strike me as spineless or annoying, but heroes with faults are the best. You can admire them and be intrigued by them, but you can also relate with them and also, they don't annoy you with their paper-thin or edgeless character. And for me, indeed, Maedhros is one of those "faulty heroes".

He has many great qualities. He has the attractive Noldorin temperament and pride and "inner fire", but he's not a foolish jerk like many of his kinsmen (*coughhisfathercough*). He can admit his mistakes and give way to others - he's surely the best negotiator of the seven brothers (Maglor would stand a chance with all his empathy, but I don't think he has the political cunning of his elder brother). Maedhros is a natural leader and also great warrior - besides, he lost his hand and leanred to fight again, isn't that just awesome? I love the big contradiction is character and his inner fight - the desire for the Silmaril, the pride, the stubbornness, the temperament and the deep sense of duty that drive him to the last desperate attempt, although he is wise, noble and gentle enough to know he's doing wrong.

Lastly, Maedhros features in two of the coolest scenes in whole Sil. I always, always, get a chill run down my spine of the scene of burning the ships in Losgar and Maedhros's disapproval of it (this tells also of his great character, I think). Also, Maedhros's and Fingon's deep friendship and Fingon's valiant and desperate mission to save his friend always touched me too.

Oh, this thread is really horrible. It makes me regress to a fan girl level. (Speaking of which, I may tell you a secret here... I never wrote any "heroine falls in love with Tolkien's hero X" fan fics, but if I had, I have no doubt "hero X" would have been Maedhros... )

And lastly, I want to say that I really have nothing against Bilbo - on the contrary. He's an adorable fellow and I like him very much. Maedhros just happens to be my special favourite...

[mormegil]

Ya old Bobo Baggins is about as worthless a character as they come. Really what has he done for me lately? No I can't stand his smug little smile. He thinks he's so big and cool for being so old but he really didn't do it on his own now did he. Okay and what kind of dufus can posses the ultimate ring of power for so long and not even realize it? The only other person was Gollum and he's just a nit-wit.

++Maedhros
Plus Maedhros is just plain awesome, the only direct relation to Feanor I like, but I hate his dad, okay maglor isn't bad either.

[Gollum the Great]

You seem to have unusual views of certain characters, morm. If you don't mind me saying so.
But I can't pick between these two. I like Bilbo, but considering that Maedhros "is just plain awesome" and another guy I like, I can't choose. I like everyone in Middle-Earth.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Given this thread has a "popularity" theme this
match is a tough call. Even Maedhros is in a sense
a forerunner of Thief Baggins in trying to "steal" two silmarils
since the sons of Feanor had forfeited a legitimate call on
them.(Yes, everyone tries to steal from poor Smaug, Gollum,
and Sauron).

But Maedros' flaws are more deep rooted then Frodo's Uncle
and Bilbo (other then his shocking animus towards
noble dragons) has more of an ability to not just want to be
generous and show magnanimity but to actually do so, so

+ + Bilbo, a.k.a. Thief Baggins

[Morthoron]

++Bilbo by default. I'm not a big fan of the Hobbitish race, but Bilbo is, after all, Bilbo (and confusticate, flummoxed and bebother are three of my favorite words).

Sorry Lommie, but the sons of Feanor are all gutless cowards in my book. And I'm particularly disappointed in Maedhros and Maglor, who at least showed common sense and tact at times (unlike their more haughty and contemptible brothers, like Celegorm and Caranthir). Unless one is making the claim that one is utterly unable to overcome fate, and incapable of breaking a vow, then Maedhros could have denied his father and the vow at the very end, not committed blatant murder, and in a small way atoned for the sins of his family (which would have stood him in better stead when being judged by Mandos).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Unless one is making the claim that one is utterly unable to overcome fate, and incapable of breaking a vow, then Maedhros could have denied his father and the vow at the very end, not committed blatant murder, and in a small way atoned for the sins of his family (which would have stood him in better stead when being judged by Mandos).

Ah, I guess that's why I like him so much. Because he "failed", in the end. So no perfect heroism there...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

++Bilbo by default. I'm not a big fan of the Hobbitish race, but Bilbo is, after all, Bilbo (and confusticate, flummoxed and bebother are three of my favorite words).

Sorry Lommie, but the sons of Feanor are all gutless cowards in my book. And I'm particularly disappointed in Maedhros and Maglor, who at least showed common sense and tact at times (unlike their more haughty and contemptible brothers, like Celegorm and Caranthir). Unless one is making the claim that one is utterly unable to overcome fate, and incapable of breaking a vow, then Maedhros could have denied his father and the vow at the very end, not committed blatant murder, and in a small way atoned for the sins of his family (which would have stood him in better stead when being judged by Mandos).

And yet you vote Sauron???

[the phantom]

Maedhros was a good chap ensnared by a terrible doom.

He showed his character when he did not want to burn the ships, and again when he attempted to make peace with various other Lords. In addition, after King Fingolfin kicked the bucket, though the "High Kingship" passed to Fingon, Maedhros was the true top dog after that.

It was he that organized the resistance to Morgoth, and it was the Union of Maedhros, not Fingon, who forced Morgoth to empty Angband.

In the end he was a victim of a rash decision he had made as a youth- making his oath, and naming Eru in it.

In his mind, he simply had to attempt to gain the Silmarils if they were not yielded to him, for he had sworn upon God that he would do so. Without that one mistake, the oath, the other bad things would not have happened.

So, can we truly wipe out all of his good deeds because of one youthful mistake? Especially since it was the Valar who had bungled the whole Melkor-running-free situation which led to everything else?

++Maedhros

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

In his mind, he simply had to attempt to gain the Silmarils if they were not yielded to him, for he had sworn upon God that he would do so. Without that one mistake, the oath, the other bad things would not have happened.

Which just brings a nice added piece of this Tolkienish fatalistic universe and its romantic heroes...

I should be the literal guy and thence vote for Bilbo but even if I really like him as a character - and my personal liking for how a life should be lead and what is important are much closer to Bilbo than Maedhros - I must confess there is certain romantic grandeur (with the bravery, shortcomings, anguish and all that) in Maedhros that just catch the imagination. And the hopeless and terrible quest for the Silmarils in the end just rise him above many. (only the end-solution I found a bit dull; burning jewel and oath undone & suicide... blah how typical... )

But sure for me it will be...

++ Maedhros

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by mormegil

And yet you vote Sauron???

Yes. Your point is what? We are talking popularity, and why you like or dislike the characters. Sauron is a better villain than Maedhros is a hero. *shrugs*

To me, Maedhros maintaining his cursed vow through several separate slaughters of his kindred is not excusable, even if he supposedly was unable to break his vow and blindly went on killing, unable to stop himself (if he indeed could not stop because of the vow, then he was a mere puppet and therefore worthless). He did not ever say enough is enough, never prevented forcibly the acts of his brothers, and killed himself rather than surrender the Silmaril. Like Judas, his committing suicide rather than repenting is a mortal sin (even though I gave up being Catholic decades ago).

Several great and heroic characters were able to refuse the One Ring (particularly Galadriel to whom it was offered freely, or Faramir), or give it up on their own accord (Bilbo and Sam), and the One Ring had a far more evilly coercive and 'addictive' effect than the Silmarils (which are. of course, supposedly 'holy gems').

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Yes. Your point is what?

I didn't know I had one