Would Gandalf ever discipline Hobbits?

[Morthoron]

If ever a Hobbit Gandalf struck,
That would be news to me.
So many characters pressed their luck,
Like ol' Butterbur in Bree,
Or silly Pippin in Moria's mine --
He certainly deserved a beating.
Yet Gandalf merely spoke his mind --
violence being self-defeating.
With Gollum he was very rough,
But always, Gandalf did restrain.
And so with this topic I've had enough,
The question was inane.

[Andsigil]

I'm sorry, I'm just really surprised that this question is still being debated at all.

How about some ideas for other threads:

Would Gandalf prefer Dorwinion wine over Bree ale?

If Gandalf had found Tuor's axe instead of Glamdring, would he have used it?

If Sauron had challenged Gandalf to an arm wrestling match to decide the fate of Middle Earth, would Gandalf had taken the challenge? What if it was a riddle contest, instead?

[alatar]

No.

[alatar]

I actually liked the original title to this thread, as when I first read it, I thought that it asked if Gandalf would ever eat hobbits, which I thought had some support, as Gandalf had no problem egging on Bert, Tom and Bill with cannibal culinary advice. I also thought the thread title could be mischievously misinterpretted to mean that Gandalf could beat them in basketball.

That said, in regards to Gandalf physically disciplining the hobbits, we find no evidence in the text that he would so such a thing. He just barks a lot, unless it's orcs or other beasties, then he kills them. No cudgeling some errant orc - swoop, and off with its head.

Peter Jackson and his crew, on the other hand, found ample evidence of Gandalf physically disciplining hobbits, yanking Pippin's and Merry's ears, dragging poor Sam through the window (and using the word "verge" ). He later takes to smacking royalty, finding that just as entertaining (i.e. Theoden the Possessed, and Denethor the Flaming).

So, again in answer, 'No.'

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

I actually liked the original title to this thread, as when I first read it, I thought that it asked if Gandalf would ever eat hobbits, which I thought had some support, as Gandalf had no problem egging on Bert, Tom and Bill with cannibal culinary advice.

alatar, I think that's an excellent idea for a thread!

[Lalwendë]

Gandalf can be fabulously grumpy, if I was to look for his 'character failings' I'd say having a tendency to be sarcastic and a bit 'short' could be one of them. He is what my grandad would have termed ornery. Maybe this was Tolkien writing the effects of lack of nicotine to the smoker into his story?

But he'd never hit a Hobbit! For one, they aren't children but people and Gandalf recognised this more than most (I dread to think what might have happened had The Shire been closer to Rohan, after the Rohirrim record with hunting the Woses ). What Authority would Gandalf have to do such a thing?! And that's laying aside his personality.

I think the films have led people astray somewhat...

[Nerwen]

Hey, children are people too, you know!

[Selmo]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What Authority would Gandalf have to do such a thing?

Gandalf always seemed to be careful about claiming any sort of authority over anyone. For example, when he confronted Wormtongue he wasn't very nice to him but he didn't hand out any punishment; that authority belonged to King Theoden.

The only time we see Gandalf punish anyone directly is the occasion when he dismissed Saruman from the Order of Wizards, broke his staff and made him crawl away, humilliated. As Gandalf the White, he had the authority to do that. He had no authority over anyone else.

.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

If ever a Hobbit Gandalf struck,
That would be news to me.
So many characters pressed their luck,
Like ol' Butterbur in Bree,
Or silly Pippin in Moria's mine --
He certainly deserved a beating.
Yet Gandalf merely spoke his mind --
violence being self-defeating.
With Gollum he was very rough,
But always, Gandalf did restrain.
And so with this topic I've had enough,
The question was inane.

We are not talking about Hobbits being bludgeoned to death by Gandalf's staff, just a clip on the ear or two, and words to that affect. Tolkein clearly saw Gandalf as a means of disciplining Hobbits where required. Your riddle and though process above reminds me a lot of Gollum, by the way.

[Strongbow]

I would like to put in that I do not think Gandalf would physically chastize a hobbit. The majority of hobbits have a good deal of base hobbit-sense, and I believe it to be in more in Gandalf's character to appeal in plain terms to this sense, rather than resort to a clip on the ear.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

We are not talking about Hobbits being bludgeoned to death by Gandalf's staff, just a clip on the ear or two, and words to that affect.

Mansun, it is not my fault that you decided to completely change the context of the discussion because your original question proved farcically problematic. This entire dialogue (or lack thereof) hinges on your first emphatic query statement, and I quote:

Originally Posted by Mansun

So would Gandalf ever beat a hobbit in the event of sheer anger and frustration, much to the likes of the ill-tempered Farmer Maggot?

Beating out of 'sheer anger and frustration' does not indicate a clip on the ear, at least not by any common definition. In any case, the answer remains an unequivocal NO. Again, as has been brought up several times in this thread, Gandalf was dealing with adult Hobbits, not children. One might as well ask if he would beat Aragorn or Gimli. The entire idea is nonsensical, and I refer you to any of the posts in this thread that have refuted such inanity.

Originally Posted by Mansun

Tolkein clearly saw Gandalf as a means of disciplining Hobbits where required. Your riddle and though process above reminds me a lot of Gollum, by the way.

Gandalf was in a leadership role and was rather short with everyone in the Fellowship (a shortness Gimli commented on in a later chapter). He chided anyone he believed acted stupidly. He did not beat, hit, cuff, thwap, smack or pinch anyone in the Fellowship.

The poem reminds us of Gollum, does it Mansun? How's that, precious? Was it crunchable and scrunchable? Mansun makes no sense, no he don't precious. *gollum*

[Fingolfin II]

In regards to answering Mansun's exact question, whether Gandalf would strike a hobbit out of sheer anger, I think the answer is overwhelmingly no. Though the question was probably based on the books, I agree with those people who think that the movies have resulted in some misconceptions regarding the main characters' willingness to use physical violence (Gandalf dragging Sam, pulling Merry and Pippin's ears; Aragorn killing the Mouth of Sauron, etc.), just as a side point.

In regards to what I think Mansun meant - would Gandalf use violence (the clip on the ear, tap on the wrist type) to discipline hobbits - I think he might, but only in the context described by Rumil: if someone else's safety was at stake. However, such hypothetical physical discipline wouldn't be permanently disabling (obviously) or borne out of 'sheer anger'. Certainly I can't envisage him swatting someone over the head with his staff just for stealing his pipe.

Though this isn't strictly pertaining to the original topic, I think the idea of hobbits as 'children' is fascinating; certainly I think despite Gandalf knowing best out of everyone that they are not and should be treated as adults, their ignorance regarding the wider world and own self-contained mannerisms certainly echo traits of children you probably wouldn't find in an Aragorn or a Boromir....but I guess that's a topic for another thread...

P.S. It's nice to be back here after a long time

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Your riddle and though process above reminds me a lot of Gollum, by the way.

Uh.... why? It's written in the first person singular, contains verb-subject agreement and doesn't say anything about fish at all.

EDIT: It does mention Gollum, though. Perhaps that's why it made you think of him.