The Middle Earth Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mormegil · 11-23-2008, 10:00 AM

Insanity I tell you! Somebody as wretched and as obring as Boromir is going to beat somebody as noble and brave as Beren. Boromir is a coward, that's right, he picks on hobbits when nobody is around and whines about how poor Gondor cannot stand up to the might of Mordor...ohhhhh poor us he says we cannot do what's right we need to ring...help us we are weak...boo-hoo.

Beren never once complained he was awesome.

Thinlómien · 11-23-2008, 11:16 AM

++Boromir

Beren's too "perfect" and personality-lacking, and like skip has nicely elaborated, even stupid. (Besides he copies Maedhros's style by getting his hand cut off... Grr...

)

Boromir, on the other hand, is one of my favourites. I love his faults. It's so refreshing to have one not-so-perfect hero in the Fellowship. Agan has already nominated most of his good qualities, so I won't babble about that, but I will just add that his death is one of the most beautiful in Tolkien's work.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-23-2008, 11:41 AM

It's been already told here, most of the things which were said about Boromir I can second. The "cool" things about Beren were his change into a wolf (but that was a disguise and a device of Lúthien, in a way) and the Ring of Barahir. I don't want to sound nasty now, don't take me wrong, but the best word for me to describe his role in the story, he was a loser. Okay, maybe when reading HoME, the thing about slaying the Orcs who took the ring... and also, he talking to Gorlim... but hey, that's rather about Gorlim, Beren's father, and others than about Beren himself... hm... All in all,

++Boromir

To add to what's been told here: He is interesting; and in a certain way, he almost (and now take it with big reservations, okay?) reaches the level of Saruman. Okay, really, with big reservations: but by considering all the various character traits in him, he is kind of "on the road to the same sector", so to say.

skip spence · 11-23-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Insanity I tell you! Somebody as wretched and as obring as Boromir is going to beat somebody as noble and brave as Beren. Boromir is a coward, that's right, he picks on hobbits when nobody is around and whines about how poor Gondor cannot stand up to the might of Mordor...ohhhhh poor us he says we cannot do what's right we need to ring...help us we are weak...boo-hoo.

Beren never once complained he was awesome.

That's the problem with the popular vote, ain't it? There are too many morons with ignorant and daft opinions differing from yours, yet their vote carries the same weight as yours, although you clearly are right.

Boromir wins by 9 votes to 3.

Match 8 of round 1:

Many fans will be saddened to see two heavyweights go at it so early in the competition, but as it is only one of these memorable characters will advance to the latter stages of the cup. This promises to be a tightly fought thriller:

Saruman vs. Gollum

Morthoron · 11-23-2008, 12:47 PM

++Gollum

Hands down, if for only two of the funniest sequences in the book: 'I wasn't sneaking!' and 'What's taters, precious?'.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-23-2008, 12:59 PM

++Saruman

Who is to question? He's just wonderful. He is Curumo, the Head of the Order, he is Saruman the White, the Wise, he is Curunír, the Loremaster of the Rings, the Master of the Voice, he is Saruman of Many Colours, the Betrayer, the Bringer of the New Order, he is The White Hand, the one who leads the Uruk-Hai, the Lord of Isengard; and last but not least, he is Sharkey, the exile, who lost everything but his pitiful servant, he is the Destroyer of the Shire, and the guy with a fabulous death scene! All hail to Saruman!!!

Lalwendë · 11-23-2008, 01:11 PM

++Skip

I hate Skip, pitting Saruman Vs Gollum. How could he be so cruel?!

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-23-2008, 03:08 PM

It's tempting to follow Lalwende's vote (but for Skip's
picking Glaurung instead of the noble Smaug ), however,
we must choose + + Gollum, who only wants to
help and get back his own from hobbits, who not only
steal the Precious but spoil nice rabbits! Granted, there
was that Deagol affair...but that was sooo long ago
and it was poor Smeagol's birthday.....

Nogrod · 11-23-2008, 03:26 PM

An interesting choice indeed.

Well they both share some common traits, first and foremost the fact that they were both lured by something larger than themselves and were corrupted by that - and finally destroyed by it.

Asking why Gollum was lured by the craft of Sauron is a no-brainer - even if Gollum's story is touchy and tragic.

But with Saruman things get a bit more intersting. First he was lured by curiosity and knowledge (which I personally value much higher than just some dull shiny objects

) but then somehow Sauron managed to twist him. Now how come that be as they were both of the maiar? What really happened there between the two an what were they thinking? Of these Tolkien doesn't but give a few little hints...

Though Saruman's downfall I have always found a bit anti-climatic. Not that every major character should exit the scene with a loud bang and some stupenduos fireworks, but somehow that whole "Sharkey" -episode with his personal revenge to the hobbits is just bad looking it from the point of view of Saruman's character. (From the hobbit POV it's different; they needed the final trial for the story to end)

Heh, the classical choice between the intellectual excitement vs. the emotional "being moved"...

I may need to abstain from voting this day. Let's see.

Gollum the Great · 11-23-2008, 03:09 PM

Legate has stated every reason I can think of for my vote.

++The White Hand

Though I do like Gollum a lot. For obvious reasons.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-23-2008, 03:13 PM

Now that's a word, Gollum! Indeed! Now really - who can vote for Gollum anymore, when even Gollum does not vote Gollum?

mormegil · 11-23-2008, 03:15 PM

A write-in candidate if I may as I care not for either of these candidates

++Beren

Quote:

although you clearly are right

Exactly, I'm glad somebody finally recognizes that my opinion is always right. Skip, I've got a new plan, my vote carries the weight of 10 other votes, that should help bring some sanity back into these precedings.

skip spence · 11-23-2008, 03:23 PM

As for me, I like the idea of both characters equally yet the choice is easy. Whereas Saruman is made out to be a master of wizardry and rethorics his actual appearances show little of it and that don't impress me much, as Shania Twain so eloquently put it.

Gollum on the other hand is all that he's made out to be, and then some.

++Gollum

Groin Redbeard · 11-23-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Who is to question? He's just wonderful. He is Curumo, the Head of the Order, he is Saruman the White, the Wise, he is Curunír, the Loremaster of the Rings, the Master of the Voice, he is Saruman of Many Colours, the Betrayer, the Bringer of the New Order, he is The White Hand, the one who leads the Uruk-Hai, the Lord of Isengard; and last but not least, he is Sharkey, the exile, who lost everything but his pitiful servant, he is the Destroyer of the Shire, and the guy with a fabulous death scene! All hail to Saruman!!!

Ya, what he said!

++Saruman

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 11-23-2008, 04:17 PM

I would have to say

++Saruman

if for no other reason than that he apparently was, at one time, a good guy. Gollum got sucked in by the Ring so fast, I can't help but think he was already something of a stinker at heart.

Lalwendë · 11-23-2008, 04:27 PM

Alright, time for me to stop being facetious.

I must make a decision and even though Gollum is a far better literary creation, I have to hold up my 'white hands' right now and admit that I find Saruman utterly cool and always have done. So if I had to live without one or indeed spend time with one of them, it would be Saruman and I'd be a fool to deny it. He's just so clever and interesting with his 'Third way' of doing things, thinking he could do things his way apart from either the Valar or Sauron.

++Saruman

11-23-2008, 10:00 AM	#1
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Insanity I tell you! Somebody as wretched and as obring as Boromir is going to beat somebody as noble and brave as Beren. Boromir is a coward, that's right, he picks on hobbits when nobody is around and whines about how poor Gondor cannot stand up to the might of Mordor...ohhhhh poor us he says we cannot do what's right we need to ring...help us we are weak...boo-hoo. Beren never once complained he was awesome. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

11-23-2008, 11:16 AM	#2
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	++Boromir Beren's too "perfect" and personality-lacking, and like skip has nicely elaborated, even stupid. (Besides he copies Maedhros's style by getting his hand cut off... Grr... ) Boromir, on the other hand, is one of my favourites. I love his faults. It's so refreshing to have one not-so-perfect hero in the Fellowship. Agan has already nominated most of his good qualities, so I won't babble about that, but I will just add that his death is one of the most beautiful in Tolkien's work. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

11-23-2008, 11:41 AM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	It's been already told here, most of the things which were said about Boromir I can second. The "cool" things about Beren were his change into a wolf (but that was a disguise and a device of Lúthien, in a way) and the Ring of Barahir. I don't want to sound nasty now, don't take me wrong, but the best word for me to describe his role in the story, he was a loser. Okay, maybe when reading HoME, the thing about slaying the Orcs who took the ring... and also, he talking to Gorlim... but hey, that's rather about Gorlim, Beren's father, and others than about Beren himself... hm... All in all, ++Boromir To add to what's been told here: He is interesting; and in a certain way, he almost (and now take it with big reservations, okay?) reaches the level of Saruman. Okay, really, with big reservations: but by considering all the various character traits in him, he is kind of "on the road to the same sector", so to say. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-23-2008, 12:47 PM	#5
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	++Gollum Hands down, if for only two of the funniest sequences in the book: 'I wasn't sneaking!' and 'What's taters, precious?'. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

11-23-2008, 12:59 PM	#6
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	++Saruman Who is to question? He's just wonderful. He is Curumo, the Head of the Order, he is Saruman the White, the Wise, he is Curunír, the Loremaster of the Rings, the Master of the Voice, he is Saruman of Many Colours, the Betrayer, the Bringer of the New Order, he is The White Hand, the one who leads the Uruk-Hai, the Lord of Isengard; and last but not least, he is Sharkey, the exile, who lost everything but his pitiful servant, he is the Destroyer of the Shire, and the guy with a fabulous death scene! All hail to Saruman!!! __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-23-2008, 01:11 PM	#7
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	++Skip I hate Skip, pitting Saruman Vs Gollum. How could he be so cruel?! __________________ Gordon's alive!

11-23-2008, 03:08 PM	#8
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	It's tempting to follow Lalwende's vote (but for Skip's picking Glaurung instead of the noble Smaug ), however, we must choose + + Gollum, who only wants to help and get back his own from hobbits, who not only steal the Precious but spoil nice rabbits! Granted, there was that Deagol affair...but that was sooo long ago and it was poor Smeagol's birthday..... __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 11-23-2008 at 03:12 PM.

11-23-2008, 03:26 PM	#9
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	An interesting choice indeed. Well they both share some common traits, first and foremost the fact that they were both lured by something larger than themselves and were corrupted by that - and finally destroyed by it. Asking why Gollum was lured by the craft of Sauron is a no-brainer - even if Gollum's story is touchy and tragic. But with Saruman things get a bit more intersting. First he was lured by curiosity and knowledge (which I personally value much higher than just some dull shiny objects ) but then somehow Sauron managed to twist him. Now how come that be as they were both of the maiar? What really happened there between the two an what were they thinking? Of these Tolkien doesn't but give a few little hints... Though Saruman's downfall I have always found a bit anti-climatic. Not that every major character should exit the scene with a loud bang and some stupenduos fireworks, but somehow that whole "Sharkey" -episode with his personal revenge to the hobbits is just bad looking it from the point of view of Saruman's character. (From the hobbit POV it's different; they needed the final trial for the story to end) Heh, the classical choice between the intellectual excitement vs. the emotional "being moved"... I may need to abstain from voting this day. Let's see. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

11-23-2008, 03:09 PM	#10
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 386	Legate has stated every reason I can think of for my vote. ++The White Hand Though I do like Gollum a lot. For obvious reasons. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

11-23-2008, 03:13 PM	#11
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Now that's a word, Gollum! Indeed! Now really - who can vote for Gollum anymore, when even Gollum does not vote Gollum? __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-23-2008, 03:23 PM	#13
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	As for me, I like the idea of both characters equally yet the choice is easy. Whereas Saruman is made out to be a master of wizardry and rethorics his actual appearances show little of it and that don't impress me much, as Shania Twain so eloquently put it. Gollum on the other hand is all that he's made out to be, and then some. ++Gollum __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan

11-23-2008, 04:17 PM	#15
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	I would have to say ++Saruman if for no other reason than that he apparently was, at one time, a good guy. Gollum got sucked in by the Ring so fast, I can't help but think he was already something of a stinker at heart. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

11-23-2008, 04:27 PM	#16
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Alright, time for me to stop being facetious. I must make a decision and even though Gollum is a far better literary creation, I have to hold up my 'white hands' right now and admit that I find Saruman utterly cool and always have done. So if I had to live without one or indeed spend time with one of them, it would be Saruman and I'd be a fool to deny it. He's just so clever and interesting with his 'Third way' of doing things, thinking he could do things his way apart from either the Valar or Sauron. ++Saruman __________________ Gordon's alive!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode