The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Groin Redbeard]

No question about it. We get to see Frodo grow on his journey and evolve into a more delightful character, and we share in his struggles that he deals with. One significant change I saw in Frodo at the end of the book was his almost pacifist nature. Frodo was ready to kill Gollum in Moria yet even at the cracks of Doom he does not feel any ill feelings towards Gollum. Same thing when he lets Saruman/Sharku go after he has defiled the Shire. Frodo has transformed into the very impitamy of mercy and is absolutely the strongest, most showing, and best side of Frodo's character.

++Frodo

[mormegil]

Bah! Frodo didn't actually do anything now did he? All he did was whine the whole way to Mordor, ride on Sam's back and basically take all the food and drink from the truly noble Samwise. How hard is it to make yourself look good when you and your uncle essentially write the narrative?

Beleg, on the other hand, is noble and brave. Plus anybody who gets a surname like Strongbow has got to be pretty cool.

++Beleg

Frodo's foot hair is too long as well.

[Thinlómien]

++Frodo

I'll come back to reason later if I have time and this round is still going on.

[Andsigil]

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

In any event, I choose ++Beleg

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

No, no, no, I should have specified clearer. Frodo wasn't a pacifist, I just said how he nearly was one with how merciful and gracious he was. He certainly didn't appose the Hobbits to fight for their home, as a pacifist would have done. Frodo wasn't afraid to fight for what was good and just but it wasn't the first thing that entered his mind. What I was referring to, when I mentioned Frodo almost being pacifist, is his handling of Saruman at the end. Saruman even jumped at Frodo with a knife and stabbed him but Frodo still let him go, he might have been overly merciful but I think that he showed wisdom at the same time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

[Nogrod]

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Well, Beleg is just cool, a Hero (with a capital H) and I really admired him when I read the Silm the first time.

Then again the parts with Frodo and Sam wandering together in the LotR were the most boring pages in the book when I was younger - I was indeed always hoping the prof would have done away with them and the story would have gotten back to where the war was brewed and fought, where the pawns moved on the board, where the politics were gambled and wider views showed.

So let's say this is Nogrod, aged 14, voting here...

[Morthoron]

++Frodo.

He is a more complete character than Beleg, who seems rather flat and one-dimensional.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Beleg overtook Frodo Baggins himself!

Don't look so surprised, Nogrod. Looking back, this was the deciding moment of that match (remember Frodo won by one measly vote):

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Poor Frodo... He will be looking at you when he goes home, and there will be tears in his blue puppy eyes.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

Oh, yes, I have read plenty about him. But note that I did say "generally". Historically, Gandhi was rather the exception.