Education in Middle Earth

Originally Posted by Kitanna

And Bombur was a dwarf, not a hobbit.

Kitanna, I have a Masters Degree in Biological Sciences from a leading UK University, so please do not insult my intelligence. I meant Bombur in relation to Dwarves as opposed to Hobbits, as one could make out despite the error, give or take a little, from the original sentence. For your benefit, I have edited the paragraph above.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Kitanna, I have a Masters Degree in Biological Sciences from a leading UK University, so please do not insult my intelligence. I meant Bombur in relation to Dwarves as opposed to Hobbits, as one could make out, give or take a little, from the original sentence.

Mansun, I note with interest you have a science degree; the problem here, unfortunately, is that you do not have an English degree. In regards to your sentence below:

Originally Posted by Mansun

Hobbits had an excellent sense of direction and aim, so archery was not a problem for them to master. Hobbits (the lean ones, excluding Bombur of course!) could also run at a good pace, almost to the level of Dwarves, so they could make worthy sprinters.

The paranthetical phrase (which I have underlined), referencing Bombur, is in agreement with the subject of the sentence, Hobbits (which is in bold print); ergo -- and Kitanna is entirely correct -- your sentence indicates that Bombur is a Hobbit. Therefore a mistake has been made on your part, and rather than getting indignant, you should gracefully accept the correction.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Closed to give everyone time to cool down. The thread will reopen tomorrow.

Reason: Way too many personal remarks and insults! I don't care who starts, but must all of you jump on the bandwagon? All posts which are not primarily concerned with the topic of the thread will be edited or deleted.

Dwarves took an interest in music, as did Men, Elves, Hobbits, and even Orcs (at least in singing evil songs), within different tastes and circumstances. Dwarves, I believe, were the only race to play a musical instrument, and as this activity is known to boost spatial brain power, this could have explained their immense skill in craft and mining. But the great lore masters, such as Gandalf and Elrond, saw little use or need for such activities. Note though that Gandalf, like Hobbits, found the subject of blowing smoke rings very amusing, so there is a similarity!

[Rumil]

Hi Mansun,

Looks to me like all the races played musical instruments-

Esty's Music Thread

(and links within)

Though the orcs seemed fondest of percussion and braying horns, so exactly how musical that was I don't know .

The dwarves seem to be the only clarinet-ists, those metal keys and twiddly bits look tricky to make so perhaps only they had the necessary metal-working skills?

The Saucepan Man reckoned Gandalf was a demon on the Hammond Organ, but I'd take that with a pinch of salt if I were you.

Oh, and Elrond was a harpist. It often used to be reckoned a useful accomplishment for men and women of 'noble birth' to learn an instrument, perhaps Elrond had harp classes back in the the First Age?

Was thinking on the more general education question and apprenticeships seems to be how trades and skills were learnt in the Shire. Wasn't the Gaffer 'prenticed to Old Holman to learn his gardening?

[Lalwendë]

There may be no mention of schools in The Shire, and we may have Sam being taught 'his letters' by Bilbo, but this does not add up to the population being mostly illiterate. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that the general population of The Shire could read and write.

Bethberry has already mentioned calendars - if the population was mostly illiterate how would they be able to read calendars? There is also a Message Service which would not exist were most of the people unable to read and write letters. The Shire also has a legal system of sorts, having both Shirriffs and Bounders, and Lawyers dealing with property and inheritance law. Presumably the Mathom House also has those little cards telling visitors what the various exhibits are?

There's also economic evidence in that most people seem to have leisure time, suggesting they have gone beyond the limits of feudalism and have entered a more modern age where there is commerce (so Bilbo could go and buy a new weskit instead of having to have a wife who could sew him one) instead of everyone just having to sort themselves out, and they have specialised labour (Sam being a gardener for example, not just a farm labourer).

Yes, there are no schools we know of, but that doesn't mean there is no education! There may even be more education

Bilbo seems to be a high flier by comparison to a somewhat poorly educated and lacklustre Shire, though he had expert pupillage from Gandalf and the Elves to thank largely (and perhaps Dwarves too). The same could be said for Frodo Baggins. Perhaps an indication that if Hobbits were to progress in Middle Earth a lot depended on their willingness to explore new things within the outside world beyond the Shire. The Shire, being valued as less than a shirt of Mithril, was obviously not economically developed in industry beyond the basic pipeweed, food and beer trade!

[Kitanna]

Hobbits (the lean ones, excluding Bombur of course!) could also run at a good pace

That implies you were referring to Bombur as a hobbit not a dwarf. There's no need to get upset because what you typed was unclear.

Edit: Morthoron seems to have said better what I was going for.

Being a secret race we have little information about them, my guess is that the lower ranking families and their sons worked in the mines while some ascended to jewel crafting or making "magical toys" like we saw at Bilbo's birthday party.

So dwarves rose as a sort of middle-class society of Middle-Earth? This is of course assuming there was a chance for social mobility among dwarves. If there was such a chance then education would have become pretty important for dwarves that weren't in the aristocracy.