Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Mithalwen]

Well though Boro and Phantom deserved a win for their double act - you were awesome and I loved you for it. However after their battle of the alpha males with Mormegil (what a scary wolf he is!!) and Nogrod I thought Brinniel did brilliantly to win the long slow game. She truly deserved the victory. Brava!!!!!

I shall be modding my Operatic game next but one, DVWP... I hope a few of you will ..err audition for a less complex game (which will have the odd twist).

[Boromir88]

Brinn - stellar

Fea - Maginificent

Mith/Rikae - lovely lament

Morm/Nog/Ka - Touche

I have a question for you Nogrod...was our argument on Day 2 an attempt to bait me into saying you were a wolf? I thought that's what it looked like, and that's why I backed off and decided to leave you for another day.

Lommy - elitist? Who was the one that fooled me?

Shasta - brilliant (even though you did ruin my filibuster)

Eonwe/McCaber/Legate - uhh...sorry about that

Ilya - I hope you enjoyed your first go.

Nerwen/Sally/Greenie/Rune - it would have in no way been this entertaining without you

Kath - at least the wolves didn't kill you on night 1, eh?

Gwath - why did you get lynched again?

Agan - still I wish we didn't make you a tasty wolf target that night, I'm in love with your style.

Gil - I would have laughed if you were a wolf

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Missing anyone? Nope don't think so.

Me neither.

I also want to add that my reasons for starting to suspect Nerwen weren't actually that far off - also Nogwolf claimed he would be offended if someone dared to suggest something &c.

[Ilya]

I found myself rooting for Brinn against my will. That was an awesome performance.

It really was. Mad props, Brinn.

Thanks everybody for such a great game and for being patient with me. Boro, tp, it was great fun to watch you run circles around everyone else, and all of the wolves were pretty darn slick.

Fea, I'm still tickled by my death scene, and all of them were great. WW is a wonderful procrastinatory tool, one I hope to take advantage of again in the future.

Shasta: Well done, again.

Legate and Agan and Gwath: uh...sorry?

Lommy, you were solid throughout and thanks again for telling me to go invisible.

Rune, Nerwen, Greenie, and Kath: Ya'll we're great late-game players and way too convincing for my own good.

McCaber, Eonwe, Sally: Sorry you guys got booted so early.

Gil: *silence*

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Lommy, you were solid throughout and thanks again for telling me to go invisible.

You're welcome. I actually always do that to people and I get to do it almost once a game, so I'm pretty used to it...

[mormegil]

Mith, are you wonderful awards coming? I do like them so.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hey everyone,

I have kind of stayed away from the barrow-downs since the end of the game, it simply angered me too much and I was actually considering giving Negative Reputation. . . . For some time it seemed reasonable that if you can give Reputation for a ww game then you can also give the opposite.

In genneral I thought it was an incredible game, obviously because of Boro, Phantom and Fea. I my self had much fun playing, until it reached the latter stages where I felt I was on my own and did not get much respons to my theories.

What annoyed me very much was that in this game I decided to give my usual suspects the benefit of the doubt and they all turned out wolves (exept for Boro, but I don't have as much of a tradition for suspecting him). Morm, had me totaly fooled, I did get bad vibes from Nogrod, but disregarded it because I always suspect him. . .I did say we should lynch Brinn, but when I had it in my power to do so, I decided to go for Ilya. . . just because I get Brinn killed and she is always innocent.

Basicly I will never ever give any of my usual suspects the benefit of the doubt again and I will lynch Brinn as soon as I get the chance.

I am still debating whether I should sign up for a game soon to redeem my self or if I should just stay away from ww for a long time.

Anyways as I said it was very entertaining game and I quite like the consept where you vote for Representatives, it would be good to try again sometime.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Mith, are you wonderful awards coming? I do like them so.

Oh blimey - I had forgotten about that - I don't know if I would presume as a mere co-moddess. And I am afraid I didn't follow the latter stages as closely as I would have liked due to my dad being ill in hospital all last week.

So that might have to be an incentive for you to play my game.... Which would be fabulous - need the return of the Mormegil effect.

However if the co-modddesses help something might be contrived. I might have a quiet afternoon at work.

[Gwathagor]

Thanks for a fun game, Fea. Well played, Brinn!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Gwath - why did you get lynched again?

Herd-mentality suspicion/voting behavior.

[Nogrod]

So time for some special thanks.

Great concept Fea! *bows* This merits a rerun on one day! But like with the DW once in a year might be fitting as it's such a gigantic undertaking.

Love you Brinn! You really stole the show! *kudos*

And yes morm, I've soon finished devouring my wardrobe...

I mean he told us from Night1 on that we should really get into the bussiness and kill Boro and then tp, and he did it every Night. And every Night me and Brinn voted him over on the issue (and yes, I used about the exact same wording with killing McCaber that Lommy used speculating it was me behind it ). But I still think the game was much more fun woth Boro and tp around even if Boro happened to be the seer.

Which brings me to Boro. Now you should never-ever be appointed the seer any more! If I'm right about my reminiscences your track record on that job is just baffling - I think you had something like three wolves in four Nights in a game long time ago - or something like that. You're a deadly seer man!

Also great game tp! I totally agree with you two that trust is an important thing in a game of ww but you must see that from my point of view I just couldn't kind of say it out aloud but had to challenge your trust as I wished to get you lynched and not killed by Night - and that required that people should start to suspect your amiable relationship - and possibly you yourself might start to distrust it. That of course was an utter failure from my part.

Great first game Ilya! One really didn't have the feeling you were first time on board! I hope too see you again in these games!

Solid performances and good company Lommy, Greenie, Nerwen, Rune ... and Kath (oh my, we don't suspect each other that much any more; where's all the solid that used to make the world firm?)

It was sad to see especially Legate, Aganzir and Sally go so early. It would have been fun to have you around for a longer period. The same goes indeed to those we killed as well but unfortunately the nature of this game is such that someone has to go, everyDay and everyNight...

Especially Gwath seems to be the unfortunate soldier who gets lynched whenever people are generally in doubt...


As to our kills... it's been a long time those first ones took place and I don't have the PM's stored anywhere, but I kind of remember we had some half-believable seer-hunches on two or three of them which fitted with the "sporty-lupinity".

A question to everyone. Why did you think it such a big deal that the wolves would do their best to make one or two of them representatives early in the game? There was much talk about that and people made their suspicions based on that presumption - which was totally crazy. I mean we had no hurry to make sure one of us is a rep, there was no reason for that kind of exposure.

[Brinniel]

Thanks everyone. This was one of the hardest WW games I've ever played, so I am rather proud I actually managed to pull it off.

To my fellow wolves- I enjoyed our Nightly PMs though our time was short. Ka I had a bad feeling would get lynched, but I thought she was sneaky enough that it would happen later rather than sooner. It was a shame to see Noggie and morm go...who knows how much longer they would've lasted if they hadn't been seer revealed. At least they kept the village amused, though I admit at the time I was more frightened at the idea that I would be all alone after they were lynched...

And morm, I'm terribly sorry for not listening to you. I felt absolutely horrible about the previous Night once Boro revealed. Though in my defense, I did mention in a PM that you probably shouldn't listen to me. See here:

Originally Posted by me on Night 3

But then again, maybe you shouldn't listen to me at all because usually my vibes are completely and utterly wrong....

Boro and tp, you two drove me nuts! But you really pulled off a wonderful little act. And brilliant seeing, Boro.

Ilya, you did such a wonderful job for your first game. I'm curious to see how you would make out as a wolf one Day.

Rune, thanks for not killing me. Though now I fear you will now vote to lynch me in every game after this...

Lommy, that was an excellent last Day lynch choice if I may say so myself. But in all honesty, I don't envy the position you were put in. You may have not caught me, but you did an excellent job of handling the pressure and I appreciated the effort you put into it.

Kath, Greenie, Nerwen: I enjoyed playing with all of you on the final Days. The Days may have gotten quieter towards the end, but you girls kept it interesting.

Legate, sorry I helped get you lynched so early. The game surely would've been even more interesting had you been around longer. But hey, it can't be helped...I'm evil after all...

Fea, this game was a brilliant idea and you did an excellent job bringing it to life.

Mith, Rikae, other guest mods: Wonderful job on the narrations. We all appreciate your help, plus all the mod commentary was rather amusing.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Next time you should not give the people a vote for "no-filibusters" if you wish those to occur - or at least adjust the deadline so that those able, willing and needy to do that can actually try it...

I agree with that. What I learned is every time there would've been a good opportunity or reason for a filibuster, the village will vote out the possibility. As long as the cloture vote remains, I think it'd be fair to eliminate the no filibuster vote.

Btw, I realised I was only voted as rep once this entire game and that was on Day 1. I guess that just proves you don't have to necessarily vote to lynch in order to be influential.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As to our kills... it's been a long time those first ones took place and I don't have the PM's stored anywhere, but I kind of remember we had some half-believable seer-hunches on two or three of them which fitted with the "sporty-lupinity".

I have the PMs stored away on a Word document. Perhaps I'll pull up some quotes later.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Especially Gwath seems to be the unfortunate soldier who gets lynched whenever people are generally in doubt...

Behold the power of group-think.

I'd like to think it has to do with my terrifying aura of menace and power...

[Brinniel]

Since it seems a lot of people are curious, I'll post some parts of the PMs. On Night 1 there was so much talk of strategy, it's hard to just summarise.

Originally Posted by morm

Obviously it is important for us to have some sway in the process of who is elected. I think it would be somewhat wise to have some people elected who are easy to suspect. That way when they get it wrong it can and will be used against them. It is likely that we won't even have to bring it up.

I'm not sure what we need to do with the phantom, if he would be worth killing early on or not. He is srewd and clever but he generally gathers a fair amount of suspicion. I wouldn't put it past Fea to make him the seer either.

I know that this is early to talk about it but I want to make it very clear that I won't hesitate to turn on any of you should I see an opportunity that will help us to gather the win in the end, and neither should you. I don't think we need to attack each other too early but if there is a good opportunity that we could gain some immunity I would like to see it.

I would also like to see if we could get one or two of us elected. I'm not sure it would be overly risky for one of us to propose the other to be elected. For example, I generally make it fairly clear that I think highly of Nogrod's judgement so it wouldnt' be odd for me to suggest him.

Originally Posted by Ka

I think only having one of us elected would be wise, just in the case our seer becomes a bit too cocky, and that we shouldn't all (of course) vote for them immediately. I don't doubt that one of the first things the seer will try to figure out is not why a representative was selected, but who voted for them and what have they done so far. Maybe we can have one or two of us 'drift' off and select someone else or put ourselves in a different camp. Though, it would be rather ironic if the seer was one of the representatives, and especially if one of us voted for them. As for now though, there's no definate way of knowing who is the seer, hopefully tomorrow reveals something.

tp is a good choice, but it would be far too likely for everyone involved if he was the seer. I dunno, it seems as if the game would be far less challenging. tp may be quite clever, but he can stumble a little if you feed the fire of his ego enough (namely to have a flippant attitude, then be constructively nice and only active enough to please his interests). Worked for me last time, I wasn't a wolf but he left me fairly well alone as long as I sometimes remembered that he was 'the' phantom and that he used his own type reason.

I'm not certain if it'll work this time, but I'd rather pay more attention to Boromir88. He's steady and stubborn for sure, but also tricky in that everyone will eventually leave him and his interests alone when they really shouldn't. I guess just keeping an eye on him for now would be a good suggestion.

The sacrificing tactic is okay, I guess, but you have to be careful you don't do it in the middle of a bandwagon crisis and/or too early. I've been the 'volunteer' twice and when we didn't plan right at least one or two of the other wolves were immediately spotted by a more analytical player the next voting Day. So, I agree with morm on that it should be used lightly. Preferably as one of the few last resorts, killing one and then to end up hanging ourselves is one of the ways to make us feel rather pathetic.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Anyway - and with regards to anyone other than us - we should not work too tightly around the same issues. This is a big village and I think we all should more or less ignore at least one or two of our mates during the first Days.


Of course if there is a clear "talk of the town" on Day1 fex. it would be hard to not say anything about it. But one of us could play then the annoyed person who says "it's stupid to concentrate on just one thing" - while someone else might be one to keep that discussion up etc.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boro sure needs to be watched closely. When he thinks he's on a track he can be not only stubborn but also persuasive and strong. My initial thought on a situation where Boro goes after one of us would be that someone might echo his suspicions (kind of play nice with him) while another one should probably go against him (defend the one under his suspicion) - and the third one should just stay away from that particular debate if possible. Or something.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just got a mad idea. And please do shoot me down with this...

But how about we went on in a dearing manner us all (or at least three of us) voting for the same Representative - not one of us - on Day1? Someone who would be not too keen to vote for anyone of us (even if s/he might have mentioned someone of us a a potential candidate) and being basically sensible. Not making too much out of it but still turning towards that same candidate who hopefully had a wrong person as her/his primary target? It would be both hilarious but also tactically great if it paid off and the one would be lynched the next Day (or at least be suspected heavily from that on?) while some / most of us washed our hands from that the next Day? I mean when we get a bandwagon rolling many will pick it up and anyhow no one will believe the wolves made such a concerted effort on Day1 for choosing someone not one of them and possibly slightly suspecting one of them! It might pay us back in the last Days if we were ready to risk in the beginning?

The seer anyhow will be on our way and needs to be appeased somehow as I think both me and morm will be ones in the head of any shortlist (with tp, Boro, Di, Kath, Legate... you name it...) and then - depending on the seer's strategy and person - Brinn and THe Ka would not be the last ones to be checked either...

Surely it all depends on how people will post on Day1 and I guess that as we all seem to be more or less veterans to this game we all know what to do and how to improvise.

Originally Posted by morm

I see where you are going with this and I like it. I think we need to take some calculated risks that will work to our benefit. The one thing I would like to see is how many votes each rep gets. It might be a bit unusual to get 3 votes from us and then 1 or 2 others. I think the first day that may work...actually I'm going to recommend early on that we, the village, establish a decent target range to fall in between on our total number of representatives.

Originally Posted by Ka

Do we have an idea of whom to vote for, or are we going to let someone make a suggestion then pick which representative would work best to our interests?
People do look back even at the most benign of bandwagons, and they always focus on the first and last few voters. I guess coming in second with a solid ground of reasoning and fairly calm air would allow us to slip by undetected while furthering the possibility of an innocent (or if we're *very* lucky, the seer... though I highly doubt it) will be killed. Either a later voter or the representative themselves.

I definately agree with getting the representatives to attack one another, or at least become so bogged in analyzing each other that they will cause mass confusion amoung their supporters (when a 'reasonable' bandwagon will look like a safe haven, thus keeping all the fish in one or more pots). Not only will it be hilarious, but it'll be less time and worry on us if they take up all the hard work in killing one another.

(I know I sent a PM too at some point, but apparently I didn't save it...)

[Brinniel]

Deciding to kill McCaber...

Originally Posted by morm

Okay, the phantom is creeping me out a bit. I wonder if he is the seer or if he is baiting us to think he is. I would like to kill him tonight...or Gil for not reading any of the rules.

Originally Posted by Ka

Ha, killing phantom seems lovely too, but I've been thinking about whom and what that will lead to. A few, slightly less persuasive people, but equally important in our village are too close to him for my own comfort, or survival at least. Legate was chummy with him, and thus his kill as an innocent might be used to suggest some form of mistrust amoung the village. He might just be the seer, but I'm wondering what a little questioning might do.
Anyways, I'm just curious what would happen to any of us if phantom was killed tonight. I can't really see a full picture, but at times I have a bad feeling about it.
Any forsight into this possibility?

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'm rather hesistant to kill off tp just yet. With his flood posting, he's doing so well at distracting the village as of now. There's a possibility of him being the seer (though I'd honestly be disappointed if he was since he's been a special role so much lately), but if so not even he would reveal his role this early unless his life was in danger. Remember there's no ranger to protect the seer. And I doubt the village is ready to lynch tp toMorrow. So while I'd like to kill him sometime in the Night, I do not think we should just yet.

Originally Posted by morm

I just remembered somewhere in the thread where Lommy said something about Agan and her getting killed by her in the night. I think those are fun things to follow up on. Likely it won't get Agan lynched but it sure would occupy a good chunk of the days discussion.

Boromir is a worthy candidate as most people think him innocent. He is smart and will figure things out more quickly than others.

Eönwë would be a confusing choice for the other villagers as many suspected him.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It would be quite unsporty to kill tp off on the first Night. And the same goes for Boro. Sure they are ones we should get done away with but the kind of result that we had with Legate would be much nicer...

I'm not calling for any veto-right on this but I'd suggest we do not kill them toNight. It's also going to give the seer some tough decision-making as well (we just have to get rid of them before the seer comes forwards and reveals their innocence).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boro called McCaber "a silent assassin". This was what McCaber replied later:

Okay. That isn't probably worth anything, but I dec9ided to just take a quick look on his posting as I knew he hadn't posted much. And what did I find? He never mentions a single other player of being suspicious or trustworthy! (He only mentions tp in passing commenting about liking his jokish idea about us finding a peaceful solution to the village's problem and not lynching anyone - and of course Boro in the post I just quoted)

Well, he plays it silently and safely, I know it from experience like all of you who have played with him. But isn't that kind of an overdoing of it? Like he really tries to be even more un-noticed and even more in the background so that no one would have an idea to try and bring him to the front? And as he's no wolf then who else has a reason to be that uncontroversial?

I mean no mention of any names of any villagers expect the two mentioned above (which were no suspicions or trusting) but still posting 11 times to look like he's present?

So if we decide to go for a seer-try I'd suggest McCaber as our target.

....With McCaber there is the possibility of seer-hunch to go with but otherwise only very-very sporty wolves would leave guys like tp and Boro around and quite a few would start thinking of me being involved in there...

Originally Posted by Ka

Hmm, McCaber would be safe kill, and possibly stir up a lot of finger pointing later on when everyone's confused. I don't see any difficultly turning the tide once that happens, we'd just need to figure out to whom should we suggest as a culprit to the village, or hint and let them do all the work with us appearing innocent and supportive.

Originally Posted by morm

I'm good with McCaber and would support that kill. I think if Brinn gets back to us we will reach the consensus.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

My last thoughts on McCaber...

I've played with him a few times and my general feeling of him is that he tends to follow other people's suspicions - and even be a bit uninterested in the games when he has no role. But he's quietish anyway, role or not.

Which doesn't mean he's not capable of using his general "reputation" to his advance.

But to my taste he has been both extremely careful this time (not mentioning even the first suspicion or trust within 48 hours and only naming two people, tp and Boro, but both on occasion of answering something that was not in-game!) and still visibly partaking (11 posts which I think is quite a lot for his standards - okay, it was 48 hours, but still).

If he is indeed the seer I could well imagine him acting thus. I may be wrong with this but that's the best bet I have this far.

But even if I were wrong with this suspicion he could be a good lynch-candidate as with killing him we could be A) sporty eg. not killing tp, Boro or Lommy or..., and B) leaving more of the loudmouths around and thus lessening the chance the seer checks us as s/he will have to ponder about tp, Boro etc. as well...

Also the fact that a quieter or more enigmatic player was killed might look bad on me, and possibly on some one of you others as well, as at least I have kind of made it a known strategy that I like to keep the "players" around and get rid of the "quiet load"... (happily I'm not the only one known to have this opinion)

But with McCaber there is this "seer-thing" to explain it - and it might even turn out true? *crosses fingers*

As I said - and if we kill him - we should not rush to speculate about his (possible) seership as the reason for the kill, but should let the others to spell it out. Only if no-one notices it and people start to make unhappy suspicions from our point of view someone should step in and like offer an analysis on McCaber's posting and only from there produce the idea that he was possibly thought of the seer by the wolves.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I agree McCaber's probably our best choice for a kill. I'm not as sure about the possibility of him as seer, but at least I think he'd be a no track kill. And he's not as obvious of a kill as perhaps some others.

My second choice would be Boromir, as he can be quite dangerous when he catches onto something.