The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'.

Are you serious? I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people. Everything about Aragorn is truly kingly. One of the truly remarkable parts of 'The Return of the King' is when Aragorn actually has to sneak into Minas Tirith to save Merry and Eowyn's lives, all because of his respect for the cities people and his humility. That is a true king!

++Aragorn

[Morthoron]

Aragorn had a lot more going for him than the run-of-mill fellow from Middle-earth: an incredible pedigree, protection and education from the Elves, and support from a woman (an Elvish one) who loved him. No one can doubt his bravery in battle, compassion in dealing with those lesser than him and his ability to lead men. One could say it was in his upbringing.

Sam? He was a gardner and lucky enough to learn his letters. Yet through perseverance and loyalty he managed to guide the most dangerous object in the world to the most dangerous place in the world, half-carrying his master most of the way, fighting a monstrous spider solo, and giving up the Ring out of friendship.

++Sam

[Tuor in Gondolin]

While it's close, aand it's tempting to go with the
Elfstone, Sam won repeeated elections whereas
Aragorn was "elected" only once and that by a hardly secret
ballot, so a vote goes to Rosie's significant other
+ + Samwise .

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Are you serious? I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people.

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

[Andsigil]

++Aragorn

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

[skip spence]

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

Don't say 'sneaking'! It only reminds me of He who isn't here.

I'll make this brief as I'm about to go to work.

++Sam

He is truly a character.

[Nerwen]

Don't belittle Aragorn, people. He's cool, especially in the first book.

All the same I think I'll vote for the brave and loyal

++Samwise the Stouthearted.

It''s just not fair to have all the vertically-challenged characters eliminated from the contest.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

Not into birds with hairy feet, eh?

This contest was very tight. Sam took the early lead but Aragorn came back with a vengeance and had the upper hand for a while. Sam the brave-hearted hung in there though and managed to get enough late votes to win and send Aragorn packing by the score of 9 to 7.

Match 8 of Round 1:
In this final match of the second round Túrin Turambar, who just managed to defeat Gimli in the first round, faces Beorn, who caused an upset by knocking out Faramir. Which one of these Orc-slayers deserve a berth in the quarter-finals?

Túrin Turambar vs. Beorn

[Morthoron]

Well, I really don't care one way or another for either character, really. But I suppose Beorn isn't as reprehensible as Turin, who is a walking psychological case-study for any number of syndromes and manias.

++Beorn

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Then wouldn't Sam also be considered a pawn that Gandalf used? That type of logic is could be used both ways.

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule. I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule.

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris. That 'Oh woe is me, I am a friendless drifter' Aragorn is from the movies, not from the books. But from the opposite viewpoint, Aragorn was not handed everything, nor was he merely Gandalf's lackey. He did indeed 'earn' the right to be King.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

People can say whatever they like. People can despise certain characters, and they can love other characters. We may not agree -- so what?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris.

The leadership of a clan of exiles in order to defend people who have forgotten you and treat you with distrust is more like a responsibility than an honor. Also, it was only right that he should be treated as royalty since Aragorn is royalty, but once again, he's earned that through his wisdom and prowess as a fighter.

As to this match between Beorn and Turin, I would have to vote for Turin. Beorn is nice and simple, but I really like The Children of Hurin and Turin's adventures. Especially how everything ends in ruin for him and his sister, not to mention his Hurin and Morwen, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

++Turin

[Aganzir]

++Beorn

Bears, honeycakes, house in the forest, tame animal buddies.

[Gollum the Great]

++Turin

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

The leadership of a clan of exiles in order to defend people who have forgotten you and treat you with distrust is more like a responsibility than an honor. Also, it was only right that he should be treated as royalty since Aragorn is royalty, but once again, he's earned that through his wisdom and prowess as a fighter.

And you're certainly entitled to have that opinion, and make such assumptions, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it. See how easy that is?

From a realistic point of view, believing one has any sense of entitlement for a throne his ancestors lost millenia previously is rather like saying you deserve to be Roman emperor because you are somehow related to Julius Caesar, even if you can prove direct father/son lineage back that far and have his sword (it reminds me of the serf saying to Arthur that watery tarts waving about scimitars is no basis for a system of government). One of the more irritating plot lines Tolkien developed as far as impingeing on one's suspension of disbelief.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

Groin, I vote for who I want but I am not taking this very seriously. I'm trying to have fun and make some people laugh, generally I only make me laugh but it's still a laugh. Remember this is mirth and not necessarily a serious forum. If this was in Novice and Newcomers, for example, I'd be a bit more serious with it. I actually love Aragorn but it's fun to poke fun.

Anyway,

++Turin

Have you ever smelled wet bear?

[the phantom]

Beorn is a bit too much of a Tom Bombadil for me to like. Oh, he's likable on a personal level, but he doesn't fit nicely into Middle Earth given the info we have on him.

Turin though- his story is perhaps my favorite of all. And I feel he should be compensated for the terrible curse placed on him and the things that resulted. And he really was a good guy deep down. Just see his dealings with Mim, his friendship with Beleg, and his treatment of dear old Sador, and you'll see the type of guy he is when he's not being driven to the brink by unbelievably bad luck (thanks to Morgoth's curse).

++ Turin

[Strongbow]

++Beorn

Mmm...honey and clotted cream.

[Ilya]

++Turin

Gotta love it when Tolkien channels Greek tragedy. Besides, bears are brutal killing machines.

[Nerwen]

++Túrin

I'm glad to see someone takes the bear threat seriously!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom on Beorn

he doesn't fit nicely into Middle Earth given the info we have on him.

That's very much true indeed.

Also Túrin is just marvellously tragic hero.

++ Túrin

[skip spence]

Another tight contest but Túrin was strongest in the end, winning by 10-7, thus securing the last spot in the quarter finals. Is this another instance where early success will turn sour in the end for Neithan the Wronged? The quarter-finals will begin tomorrow.