Tol-in-Gaurhoth LIV: The Council of Evil

[Boromir88]

Boro - My eye is on you, but just because I've seen you to be devious in the past.~Strongbow

Don't let the past cloud your judgement my very young pada - crap wrong universe...balrogling.

Although how new to this whole shindig are you really? You seem to have a nice grasp of roles, rules, and player's styles. So Agan makes it clear she's a werewolf, and then says it would be bold for a newbie (Strongbow) to say what the werebear is if he was the werebear himself. But as I have rightly surmised, you Strongbow, do not seem too new to this at all. So, why do you and Agan just fill the rest of us in, eh? What are you two trying to do?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

then says it would be bold for a newbie (Strongbow) to say what the werebear is if he was the werebear himself.

Bah, I was referring to Gwath's suspicion and why I didn't like it.

[Boromir88]

Tsk tsk, Boro, I wouldn't say not posting makes Nog & Shasta look innocent.~Agan

True but their silence makes them look more innocent than guilty. And if they are not posting because they are not aware the game has started, well that surely makes them look more innocent. Wouldn't you think?

Besides, care to explain this effort against Gwath?

Edit: crossed with Agan, which you did answer that, and makes this post now completely useless. Thank you.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

True but their silence makes them look more innocent than guilty. And if they are not posting because they are not aware the game has started, well that surely makes them look more innocent. Wouldn't you think?

You're welcome Boro.

That depends on when the roles were sent. At least Nog was last online about 12 hours before the game started so I wouldn't bet on it.

Bowie what do you mean we have no plan? Of course we do! We're trying to kill all the innocen.. oops!

Yours truly hasn't eaten anything today so she's going to find some nice tender elven meat now (dwarves are way too barbaric for me).

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But as I have rightly surmised, you Strongbow, do not seem too new to this at all. So, why do you and Agan just fill the rest of us in, eh? What are you two trying to do?

Which would you rather have: a newbie who did his homework, or a newbie who's dangling at your heels?

If I was the Bear, I'd be trying to kill Agan because the Bear is crazy like this, and wants to see everybody die. Ergo, Agan and I have no plan whatsoever, except for what Tholdur told us to do - find the traitors, and destroy them with discrimination.

[Strongbow]

And by "with discrimination", I of course mean: "without discrimination".

[Brinniel]

I'm sure one of the reasons this Day has been so quiet is because several players haven't realised the game has started (and with a Day), and are too busy with RL holiday stuff to check the Downs. I don't think that'll point to any sort of guilt or innocence.

After last game, I won't be surprised if you all decide to lynch me early on. It's a good thing I don't have a special role. For once, I'm actually not the slightest bit worried. I'm just relieved to finally get to play without the pressure of being something other than ordo for the first time in 2 1/2 games.

I have to vote very soon, btw.

[Brinniel]

I have to go now and I don't know if I'll be back before deadline. So time to vote (yay for randomness).

++Aganzir

You know I love you Aganzir, but you're the one I feel least guilty voting for. And anyway, what better way for a werewolf to hide than to play a werewolf?

Alright, see you all toMorrow (or not...).

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

You're correct in saying that I have played Werewolf before, although it was called Mafia, and the Werebear was the Serial Killer. That's the reason why the mechanics are so familiar to me.

I was wondering what the Serial Killer remark was supposed to mean. Mafia, right.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Bah, I was referring to Gwath's suspicion and why I didn't like it.

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence.

[Aganzir]

Ai-ai Brinn!

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence.

I dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so. Anyway someone needs to get the game rolling and you've been helping in it with your bear remark.

Luckily there's still... erm... four and half hours till deadline.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so.

Touche.

[Boromir88]

Which would you rather have: a newbie who did his homework, or a newbie who's dangling at your heels?~Strongbow

Hmm good point, you've passed for today.

That depends on when the roles were sent. At least Nog was last online about 12 hours before the game started so I wouldn't bet on it.~Agan

Well then let us hope he is quickly informed, or this will be a very random, and very poor choice of our Day 1 voting options.

Alright so a somewhat flippant statement (yet not completely flippant) of who I currently trust.

Edit: crossed with Agan Again - this is becoming a habit.

Ilya- simply for mentioning the phantom. He will be sorely missed, as a confidant, and I can't hijack a discussion by myself. Although I am guessing Agan is campaigning for that job - so Agan what do you say? Where was I? Oh yes, Ilya looks trustworthy.

Brinn- She's such a sweet-talker, and that makes her cunningly dangerous. But hey, I think she's genuine, may the grace the Vala have bestowed upon me protect me now if my hasty judgement comes back to execute me in my slumber.

Everyone else, well I trust you no farther than I could throw a sack full of irons.

Edit 2: And for some reason I put my first edit in the middle of my post. Odd.

[Aganzir]

To clarify, I wouldn't bet on Nog being aware that the game has started. I was in a hurry to finish the post because I wanted to go to eat so I was unclear.

I think I'll text Nog.

What do you mean you can't hijack the discussion Boro?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

may the grace the Vala have bestowed upon me protect me now if my hasty judgement comes back to execute me in my slumber.

The Valar? Why have the Valar bestowed grace upon you? Mighty suspicious if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Eönwë my point is that I disagree with Boro calling Nog & Shasta innocent-looking because of their lack of posting. Screw that last sentence there, I'm tired.

I was joking.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay Nog just texted me. I got the impression he didn't know the game had started.

Of course I could text also Kath if need be as I happen to have her number as well... :-D

If you hadn't already accepted the position of being Boro's partner, I would have said that we should appoint you Chief Texter.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

The Valar? Why have the Valar bestowed grace upon you? Mighty suspicious if you ask me.

You see, he's Alatar.

If you want me to be an official texter, I expect some pay.

Eönwë, why do you think I might be the bear? Why not a wolf?

Anyway I'm going to have a sauna now.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

You see, he's Alatar.

Oh, yeah! Now I remember.

All those years spent in a cave must have extinguished my brain.

[Nogrod]

Lemme see, ain't there a party around? And nobody, ye nobody was telling me nothin' bout it. Manners... mind you! ... Or was me ol' me sleepin? I'd do with a shin or two to gnaw right now.

So we just vote right on or tomorroer? Don't you nobody suppose I know how to read anyway. Uh, too much to think... Blimey, me brain hurts! Let's just bang some heads together and see who stays standing the last?

*frowns with no one getting enthusiastic enough*

Okay, okay... I'll try that reading-stuff even if I don't see the point.

[Boromir88]

I do!
At least I can try to. ~Agan

If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working.

Boro, when you said to Bowie that the feeling (of slight suspicion) was mutual, what did you mean?

Basically it is because of all the Gwath talk earlier. Someone in there is bound to be furry (either wolf or bear).

First you, Agan:

Also, I'm suspicious of Gwath because of his maybe-you-knew-because-you're-the-bear comment,

Gwath. Because of that "Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew." suggestion.

And then others start following suit:

I do find Gwathagor's accusation against Strongbow to be a bit out of line. It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say, not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.~Menel

Gwath - I can't be sure of anything, but you don't trust me for my knowledge of the enemy. My eye is also on you, even more so than the Blue Wizard. - Suspicion~Strongbow

Gwath - I'm suspiciousish, but honestly I think it's because other people are suspiciousish of Gwath, and he looked guilty last game too, so I'm holding off on my pitchfork for now.~Ilya

Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.~Eonwe

Now with all those people announcing suspicion, logic plus a simple application of odds/statistics would say one is up to no good.

One of these days Gwath will turn up to be a baddie and it will come back to be the end of me, maybe that will be the end of me. However, I find it far more suspicious that we have all these numbers attaching on to the Gwath suspicion, than Gwath's own rather odd posts.

I know I said I would give Menel and Strongbow a pass today, but hey I'm more than willing to cancel that.

Of those, Eonwe looks the most innocent. He gives some reasonable logic to suspecting Gwath and Agan you first pointed it out. Plus your efforts to get some action today look good. If you are innocent, I would say they worked, I mean we don't have many posts, but you certainly got a lot of people talking about Gwath.

Menel accuses Gwath of grasping at straws, but that's a general accusation that can be applied to almost anyone, especially at Day 1. And I don't like the last phrase:

not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.

It looks like something Nogrod did to Gwath before. That is Gwath did this, and a wolf would do that, thus Gwath must be a wolf.

Strongbow makes it personal - that is since Gwath suspects him he suspects Gwath more than the Blue Wizard (me).

And I recant my trusting feeling about Ilya, because that just looks like an attempt to lynch Gwath but in the process not make herself too attached. That is saying Gwath is somewhat suspicious, but she won't pursue it further today. But, you encouraging others to go after Gwath if they want to - eh Ilya?

Edit: Crossed since Agan's #49

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've returned. Sorry about all that confusion with the DL.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Eönwë, why do you think I might be the bear? Why not a wolf?

Well, you seemed to be playing more in the "I'm-in-this-for-myself-who-care about-anyone-else" style to me. You haven't done the whole "disassociating-myself-from-someone-but still-protecting-them"thing (well, maybe a bit with Boro), but then again, you probably wouldn't be so obvious.
Anyway, I rejected this idea- I don't think I made i that fact clear enough in my list though (I tried to do it in the last sentence, but it obviously didn't come out right).

[Ilya]

Oh! Oh! I forgot about this so maybe others have as well. Everybody go invisible.

Just checking in. Time to stir up some knee-jerk suspicions based on nothing but innocuous not noteworthy at all conversation! In the spirit of Christmas, of course.

Agan - Already has a vote, but is being oddly disarming. Either she has me under a glamor, or I'm getting no bad vibes just yet.

Brinn - I get exhausted vibes from you, so be well and have fun, whatever it is you're doing. It's a little weird that you already think you're going to be gone so soon into the day, and that's the only thing that's striking me a little strange.

Bowie - Mad props for not being intimidated and coming out swinging, new-favorite-nickname guy. Will you think ill of me if I believe your eagerness and preparation indicate that you have a role? Like, I dunno about WW just yet, but you're up to something, mister.

Boro - I know you'll do your best. That said, the "Oh, Boro's innocent" moment hasn't happened for me yet. You're being watched, my friend.

Eonwe - I got nothing.

Gwath - I'm suspiciousish, but honestly I think it's because other people are suspiciousish of Gwath, and he looked guilty last game too, so I'm holding off on my pitchfork for now.

Menel the Dragon - Unlike his less accepting brethren, this fiery beast seems to be on the level so far. Was quick to point out what looked to me like Gwath joking, but I haven't played with Meneltarmacil before, so I'm reserving judgment.

Everybody else - Um, hi.

I have to go out and succor our floundering economy for a bit, but I'll be back before voting time ends.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Bowie - Mad props for not being intimidated and coming out swinging, new-favorite-nickname guy. Will you think ill of me if I believe your eagerness and preparation indicate that you have a role? Like, I dunno about WW just yet, but you're up to something, mister.

I've been eager waaaay before role PMs came out, so: try again.

Boro - Can't really tell: are you suspicious of me or no?

[Aganzir]

Brinn (innocent): ++Agan
what better way for a werewolf to hide than to play a werewolf?
Since Brinn's dead I see no reason to analyse her vote.

Eönwë: ++Gwath
Hasn't seen anything that should change his opinion since his list post, which says as follows: Slightly suspicious
Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.
I think Eönwë had reasonable enough grounds to vote Gwath, although also Gwath looks quite innocent.

Bowie: ++Brinn (innocent)
Last standing, first down. And a little to open about her roleclaims.
I suppose I can't accuse anyone for voting Brinn as I was the first to bring her up as a possibility, but this looks maybe a bit too convenient. However I never know how I should react to newbies so I don't know what to make of this. Overall Bowie looks quite ok though.

Boro (innocent): ++Isabell
Sorry dear, this was a hat pull of the non-posters.
Somehow I doubt very much it was this that got Boro killed, especially as Isabell hasn't shown up at all. Hey Shasta do you think you could notify her that the game has started if she doesn't come soonish?
By the way, Gollum, do we have modfire?

Agan: ++Brinn (innocent)
I prefer her over others who have been voted.
Ie I didn't want to vote Gwath and refused to vote a non-show, plus I suspected Brinn a bit.

Nog: ++Brinn (innocent)
Well first he said she should be lynched just to be on the safe side. Already in his next post he considered voting Brinn or Ilya (of whom he had said nothing earlier), or someone from the Gwath-wagon. He would rather have voted Ilya but she didn't have enough votes.
I don't feel quite comfortable with Nog either, can't put my finger on it. Try to elaborate later. I'm not worried yet, though.

after deadline

Menel: ++Agan
I also don't like how Aganzir flip-flops on several different people (including Ilya). I get the sense that she is trying to cast suspicion on others, yet making it appear otherwise.
Hmm this has been discussed already, to some extent, and I won't repeat it all here. Except Menel hasn't told how I flip flop on Ilya and others (apart from Gwath), nor has he explained that suspicion casting thing. I am dull, I need examples.

Ilya: ++Brinn (innocent)
to just be sure there's no double-lynch...
Understandable but it feels somehow too convenient, too. She didn't seem to suspect Brinn at all, though, which makes me wonder a bit.

Gwath: ++Eönwë
out of principle and hurt feelings
Well what can I say? Gwath looks rather honest at least. Let's hope he and Eönwë won't be at each other's throats today, I don't think it's worth their while.

Non-voters:
Isabell
Kath
sally
Shasta
all of whom except Izzy have checked in later.

No vote strikes me as particularly suspicious, except maybe Bowie & Ilya's too convenient-looking votes. However they are both rather new so I don't know. I don't like Menel's vote either but that's maybe more because it was for me.

edit: xed with Kath (good to see you ) and Gollum

[Gollum the Great]

By the way, Gollum, do we have modfire?

I was hoping to ask about that.

What is modfire?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I was hoping to ask about that.

What is modfire?

If someone doesn't vote for [mod determined number] days they are automatically killed.

[Aganzir]

A mod can decide that if a player doesn't post and/or vote for x (usually it's been two, I think) days, s/he's removed from the game.

edit: xed with sally

[Boromir88]

What do you mean you can't hijack the discussion Boro? ~Agan

Unlike tp, I can't continue to talk to myself. Last time, he pushed me to a higher activity than I thought was ever possible, that was because he was even more active. I need a partner so to say, and I was asking if you'd like the job.

Edit: crossed with Strongbow

[Boromir88]

Boro - Can't really tell: are you suspicious of me or no?~Strongbow

You bought yourself another day, from me at least, so to say. But I don't trust you - hopefully that makes a little more sense.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You bought yourself another day, from me at least, so to say. But I don't trust you - hopefully that makes a little more sense.

We're golden now. Maybe not golden. Maybe brass.

And what did I tell you: deviousness. It stems from shrewdness and suspicion.

[Eönwë]

This probably the quietest Day of WW (or TiG, as I'm sure that's what Gollum would like it called) I've played in. Or maybe it just seems so after the last game. Nogrod hasn't even said one word!

There's not really much to say.

I think I'll go analyse the very small number of posts we have and make a list of what I'm gleaning from the posts so far.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I need a partner so to say, and I was asking if you'd like the job.

I do!
At least I can try to.

So right now I'm not worried about Bowie and Menel.

Boro, when you said to Bowie that the feeling (of slight suspicion) was mutual, what did you mean? If it wasn't a joke, could you elaborate a bit?
And I just can't for the life in me see how not posting should make Nog and Shasta look innocent. Unusual, yes, but it indicates nothing.

So I'm being disarming Ilya? Eek, time to do something about it.
You're one filthy werewolf and should die!!!! Immediately!!!!!


Unlike Ilya, I don't think Bowie's eagerness means he has a role. Besides, that can be a dangerous thing to say aloud, especially in a game with no ranger. The baddies will remember it when looking for possible targets.

I don't know about Ilya. She doesn't ring any alarms yet, though.

Eönwë my point is that I disagree with Boro calling Nog & Shasta innocent-looking because of their lack of posting. Screw that last sentence there, I'm tired.

I don't know about Brinn. On the one hand I'd like to trust that her happiness over not getting a role is real, but then again, it's just not enough. It's always hard to make up one's mind based on such statements.
And she voted for me and I know I'm innocent.
But I always suspect her.
So what? In this game she deserves it. :P

I'm actually feeling quite good about Eönwë. He seems to participate. And I know I can't know for sure because he's never been a wolf, but his behaviour looks rather normal. I believe he'd be somehow different as a wolf.

Also, we must not forget that also the wolves & bear can be somewhat honest about their suspicions as there is always a chance they hit their enemy.

Okay Nog just texted me. I got the impression he didn't know the game had started.

Of course I could text also Kath if need be as I happen to have her number as well... :-D

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Tsk tsk, Boro, I wouldn't say not posting makes Nog & Shasta look innocent. It's possible (and more likely) that they just don't know the game has started, or have other hurries. Besides an evil Nog would be posting just as much or even more than an innocent Nog.

And your point is...?

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I was wondering what the Serial Killer remark was supposed to mean. Mafia, right.

Ah, that explains it.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence.

Well, we don't have much else to go on- it's Day one and there's under 50 posts!

x-ed since last Bowie.

[Eönwë]

Innocent
No-one seems too innocent.

Probably innocent
Boro- Posts a lot, and says quite a bit. He's off the hook for now.
Strongbow- He seems genuine, and is being oversuspected in my opinion.
Aganzir- Also posts a lot. She also seems quite innocent, but as much as Boro. She may be our werebear, but I doubt it. She was about to go in the category below, but after her seemingly innocent last post, I feel better about her.

Slightly Innocent
Ilya- That invisibility thing seemed genuine. But then it was only when I started looking at posts that I realised that she as flying under my radar (or reindeer, or fell beast for that matter)


Could be either
Brinn- Posts twice. Doesn't say much. Seems like she's trying to let off innocent vibes. But that doesn't necessarily make her evil.


No idea
Menel- Seems innocent, but I've never playeed with him before, so I don't know his tactics.

All those who haven't yet posted- Come on, post!

Slightly suspicious
Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.

Highly suspicious
Sadly, I can't find anyone suspicious enough for me to put here.


If there's anyone else, you are seriously under my radar, and are therefore highly suspicious in my eyes.



edit: didn't x-post with anyone. How depressing!