A Question Concerning Tengwar.

[elwin starfyre]

i decided on the tattoo, it will say "rise above," however i have a question concerning a couple of the variants, firstly, would i use the trilled or untrilled version of "r?" my own opinion is the trilled version, as it is a "hard" r, i believe...but i'm not sure...secondly, the s...would i use the symbol for "s" or "z"? i read in the appendix that a good way to transcribe english using tengwar was phonetically, but when i say the word "rise" aloud, it seems like it could go either way.

i also am wondering if i would use a long carrier for the a in "above"...?
i looked at a generator and it didn't use a carrier, it just placed the tehta for "a" over the symbol for "b", and crowded in the "o" tehta as well, in my opinion it looked a bit messy.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by elwin starfyre

i decided on the tattoo, it will say "rise above," however i have a question concerning a couple of the variants, firstly, would i use the trilled or untrilled version of "r?"

I would use the character called rómen (the one that kind of looks like a y).

secondly, the s...would i use the symbol for "s" or "z"? i read in the appendix that a good way to transcribe english using tengwar was phonetically, but when i say the word "rise" aloud, it seems like it could go either way.

I would use the character for z.

i also am wondering if i would use a long carrier for the a in "above"...? i looked at a generator and it didn't use a carrier, it just placed the tehta for "a" over the symbol for "b", and crowded in the "o" tehta as well, in my opinion it looked a bit messy.

In my opinion you could use a circumflex instead of three dots (following the description in Return of the King). Or use a pen and paper and adjust the tehtar better.

You could also write English in a full mode as JRRT does in his English versions of the King's Letter. In this mode a = vilya (number 24 on the chart in the book). To see the rest of the English examples you might have to buy the book Sauron Defeated, or Vinyar Tengwar 29 which reproduces the second set of texts (and looks at usage in all six examples).

[elwin starfyre]

thank you, Galin!
This morning, I decided, that instead of spelling the words phonetically, I'm going to spell them exactly as they are. Far less confusing, and I will feel more confident that they're correct. The only remaining question is, since I'm transcribing English into Tengwar, could I use the Quenya or Sindarin modes, or do I have to use carriers for each of the tehtar? I saw somewhere that someone had done this and claimed it to be the "English" mode for tengwar. I personally think the way the tattoo looks in the Quenya mode is pretty neat, I like it alot, but I'm shooting for accuracy now.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by elwin starfyre

thank you, Galin! This morning, I decided, that instead of spelling the words phonetically, I'm going to spell them exactly as they are.

A good choice. I would call this an orthographic approach but I will note too that Tolkien himself, when using a largely othographic approach, still transcribes the voiced s (z) with the character for z. Note the suggestion at Amanye Tenceli under 'General Use' Orthograhic (for English):

Originally Posted by Amanye Tenceli

The general rule of the English orthographic spelling is that each tengwa or tehta corresponds to a specific letter or sequence of letters in the Roman alphabet. However, on some points the system does not adhere strictly to Roman orthography. For instance, the voiced pronunciations of th and s ([ð] and [z]) are distinguished from their voiceless counterparts. In addition, the spelling sometimes deviates from the orthographic, in favor of a more accurate representation of the pronunciation. Thus the tehta for i can be used for the final vowel in history, and the tehta for o is used to represent the vowel in war.

Far less confusing, and I will feel more confident that they're correct. The only remaining question is, since I'm transcribing English into Tengwar, could I use the Quenya or Sindarin modes, or do I have to use carriers for each of the tehtar? I saw somewhere that someone had done this and claimed it to be the "English" mode for tengwar. I personally think the way the tattoo looks in the Quenya mode is pretty neat, I like it alot, but I'm shooting for accuracy now.

In my opinion something Tolkien himself published would be a great example to follow then, and so I would place the vowels as they are found in The Lord of the Rings title page (lower inscription). Here they are put above the following tengwar (when available of course), and with Tolkien's transcription of Ronald you have a good example of an o-tehta and an a-tehta (three dot version) 'next to each other' atop the consonants.

I would use the underposed dot to indicate silent e.