Beorn

[The Might]

True, true, and he was no Germanophile either.

But yeah, the Finns are the best example, especially since the Professor knew their mythology so extensively.

And if you think about it, it makes sense for all these people who descended from hunter-gatherers living in forests to worship bears. After all, if you live in the forest, what is probably the most dangerous thing to come across as a human... a bear! So, as a not so intelligent prehistoric man you make up stories and legends to explain yourself the power of the bear and you pass them on to your children and so on.

Bears ftw!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

But yeah, the Finns are the best example, especially since the Professor knew their mythology so extensively.

And if you think about it, it makes sense for all these people who descended from hunter-gatherers living in forests to worship bears.

So Stephen Colbert is definitely not descended from Finns?

More seriously, why did Tolkien (in The Hobbit) portray crows as bad but
ravens as good and noble? Is there some northern mythological
reason?

[The Might]

I really love Colbert's reports on bears, I watched a compilation of several clips some time ago. I actually at first only watched the Daily Show, but now I'm a big fan of the Colbert Report as well.

Ok, enough about that, talking about them birds:

Crows, and especially ravens, often feature in European legends or mythology as portents or harbingers of doom or death, because of their dark plumage, unnerving calls, and tendency to eat carrion.

Now this is strange, since it would seem that crows and ravens are to be seen more or less as belonging to a similar mythlogical category, evil carrion-eating war-bringing birds.

However, in the case of the ravens there is one special case I know of. Odin was connected to ravens in Norse mythology, I believe they served as his eyes and ears. As such, ravens were useful and good birds rather than bad ones. And isn't there a story that says that England will fall if the ravens leave the Tower of London? I believe I heard something like that whilst in London this summer on some tourist tour.

So, Tolkien may have had some reason to portray ravens as good birds and crows as bad.

I do however believe that there is a lot more to the whole mythological background of these creatures, I think the matter deserves a thread of its own which I'll be starting soon.

EDIT: xed with Morth and I missed that in Andsigil's post leading to the repetition.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

It's long been assumed that the Viking berserkers got the name from the Swedish "Bärsärk" and wore bear skins as a totem. The parallels between Beorn and the beserkers is obvious, but the Norsemen portray them as barbaric and savage killers, which Beorn is obviously not.

But doesn't Beorn turn into a bear when he's angry? I also seem to remember that he was quite violent in the battle of Five Armies, and that's the only time we see him fight.

Originally Posted by The Might

And if you think about it, it makes sense for all these people who descended from hunter-gatherers living in forests to worship bears. After all, if you live in the forest, what is probably the most dangerous thing to come across as a human... a bear! So, as a not so intelligent prehistoric man you make up stories and legends to explain yourself the power of the bear and you pass them on to your children and so on.

Not only that, but bears are hunter-gatherers themselves, and good ones at that. Prehistoric man could probably learn a lot from looking at bears (from a safe distance, of course). Their size and power also could be quite enviable.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

But doesn't Beorn turn into a bear when he's angry? I also seem to remember that he was quite violent in the battle of Five Armies, and that's the only time we see him fight.

I was thinking of this part:

Much can be derived about berserkers from Egils saga. Egil's grandfather was named Kveld-Ulf meaning "evening wolf", and this is generally ascribed as meaning he was a werewolf. Kveld-Ulf's son, referred to as Skalla-Grimm, was a berserker. Kveld-Ulf and Skalla-Grimm are both depicted as irascible and violent throughout the saga, the former attempting to kill his son. Egill Skallagrímsson himself is described in the saga as attacking opponents with his teeth, ripping out another berserker's jugular vein during a duel. Patently, violence and gruesome tragedies permeate the berserker ethos described in Icelandic sagas such as this one.

I firgured that it's a bit over the top, even for Beorn.

[Alfirin]

I always just assumed that Beorn along with his sons and the rest of the Beornings were the third age remmnants and decendants of the House of Beor. Obviosly Beorn isnt a dircet decendent of Beren, but there were probably other members of the House. Also my Silmarillion momory is a bit rusty but wasnth there a bit about all of Beren's folk having the skin chaging ability, with Beren just been better at it?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

I always just assumed that Beorn along with his sons and the rest of the Beornings were the third age remmnants and decendants of the House of Beor. Obviosly Beorn isnt a dircet decendent of Beren, but there were probably other members of the House. Also my Silmarillion momory is a bit rusty but wasnth there a bit about all of Beren's folk having the skin chaging ability, with Beren just been better at it?

Was that power Beren's? I can only recall two instances of his form changing. By Felegund's arts they both took on the appearance of orcs, and with Lúthien's power he took of shape of the wolf Draugluin.

[The Might]

I don't believe there is any indication that the Beornings were descendants of Beor, although the names are similar.