Coincidence?

[The Might]

Hmmm good point there Alfirin, I was not aware of that and under the circumstances of Tolkien's studies it does seem to be a lot more plausible that actually he had been considering the European legends about meteorites when he thought of Eol's story.

And yes, the black stone of Erech does intrigue as after all it was nice, black, round and shiny but it wasn't a palantir, just a stone in the end. Maybe Isildur liked shiny rocks?

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by The Might

And yes, the black stone of Erech does intrigue as after all it was nice, black, round and shiny but it wasn't a palantir, just a stone in the end. Maybe Isildur liked shiny rocks?

He had a history of hanging on to shiny objects rather longer than was advisable.

[Lalwendë]

I noted in a thread not long ago that the Meneltarma on Numenor often makes me think of the Kaaba at Mecca, so this is an interesting thread!

Now, is it my imagination or is there something in one of the texts which states that the walls of Orthanc were constructed of Obsidian? That's not from meteorites but is an Igneous rock formed by volcanic activity (and very nice, too). And Tolkien noted that the walls around Minas Tirith were black and of the same stone.

If someone can clarify or not about this that would be excellent.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now, is it my imagination or is there something in one of the texts which states that the walls of Orthanc were constructed of Obsidian? That's not from meteorites but is an Igneous rock formed by volcanic activity (and very nice, too). And Tolkien noted that the walls around Minas Tirith were black and of the same stone.

I would think the same goes for the Erech stonet too. Numenoreans were probably just fond of black stone (probably obsidian), it seems.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I noted in a thread not long ago that the Meneltarma on Numenor often makes me think of the Kaaba at Mecca, so this is an interesting thread!

Now, is it my imagination or is there something in one of the texts which states that the walls of Orthanc were constructed of Obsidian? That's not from meteorites but is an Igneous rock formed by volcanic activity (and very nice, too). And Tolkien noted that the walls around Minas Tirith were black and of the same stone.

If someone can clarify or not about this that would be excellent.

I don't recall anything saying it was made of Obsidian specifically. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age in The Silmarillion simply says:

And in the circle of Angrenost, which Men call Isengard, (the Númenóreans) made the pinnacle of Orthanc of unbreakable stone.

The outmost wall of Minas Tirith was indeed said to be similar:

Its outward face was like to the Tower of Orthanc, hard and dark and smooth, unconquerable by steel or fire, unbreakable except by some convulsion that would rend the very earth on which it stood.

The Siege of Gondor ROTK

Appearance-wise it seems like enough to Obsidian, but I don't think that particular rock could be described as 'unbreakable'.

[Alfirin]

My bet's on black basalt as being more likey. Obsidian is actually not all that strong; it is, after all, basically volcanic glass. It takes one hell of an edge when chipped (an obsidant knife blade, in fact is sharper than all but the most highly honed steel blades) but it is the one of the last stones you'd want to try and build with. you couuld assumedng you had chunks big enough polish it to mirror smoothness but it would take an incredilbe amount of time. Leaving the rough edges on the outside sounds good (it would basically mean you had a wall covered with flesh shearing edges) until you realize that should the walls be heated (as they migh by someone lighting fires around the bottom, during a seige) the stones wouln't just crack, they would shatter showering your enemies and your own tropps with a rain of razor sharp shrapne. Not to mention that obsidian has a lot of internal bubbles of its own which could pop and crack in these same temperatures.) Basalt on the other hand is very strong and study, weathering better than even granite. True it isnt neccerily shiny, but it will take a good polish if it is dressed and it can be sort of sparkly if it has the right crystals in it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes. Or why not to go with the simple, and in my opinion the best answer (of course just for myself, I am not forcing that on anybody), that it is simply an unknown substance. In other words, why do we have to always break the things to find out what they are... ( )

[Findegil]

Since the discussion has lost the swords of Eol fare behind, this might be out of place, but here it goes anyway: As fare as I remember the swords were not black to begin with. They were shiny steel as any other normal balde. Anglachel changed to the black colour only after the death of Beleg.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

My bet's on black basalt as being more likey. Obsidian is actually not all that strong; it is, after all, basically volcanic glass. It takes one hell of an edge when chipped (an obsidant knife blade, in fact is sharper than all but the most highly honed steel blades) but it is the one of the last stones you'd want to try and build with. you couuld assumedng you had chunks big enough polish it to mirror smoothness but it would take an incredilbe amount of time. Leaving the rough edges on the outside sounds good (it would basically mean you had a wall covered with flesh shearing edges) until you realize that should the walls be heated (as they migh by someone lighting fires around the bottom, during a seige) the stones wouln't just crack, they would shatter showering your enemies and your own tropps with a rain of razor sharp shrapne. Not to mention that obsidian has a lot of internal bubbles of its own which could pop and crack in these same temperatures.) Basalt on the other hand is very strong and study, weathering better than even granite. True it isnt neccerily shiny, but it will take a good polish if it is dressed and it can be sort of sparkly if it has the right crystals in it.

Yes, the basalt (which can contain glass, but typically includes annealed crystals) should be harder than obsidian, which is basically just a silica rich glass. As you say, shiny and develops a sharp point or edge, but not all that strong. Certainly it would chip. I always figured that Orthanc was something more like basalt, perhaps formerly the throat of a volcano (like the Devils Post Pile in Wyoming).

As for meteorites, there are several varieties, including stony meteorites (not necessarily dramatically different than basalts in that they are dominated by silicate material, and iron meteorites, which consist of iron-nickel alloy. The stony meteorites look like basalt, while the iron meteorite would be metallic. I figured that the two swords mentioned were made from iron meteorites...

[Beanamir of Gondor]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

Yes, the basalt (which can contain glass, but typically includes annealed crystals) should be harder than obsidian, which is basically just a silica rich glass. As you say, shiny and develops a sharp point or edge, but not all that strong. Certainly it would chip. I always figured that Orthanc was something more like basalt, perhaps formerly the throat of a volcano (like the Devils Post Pile in Wyoming).

Like... Orodruin?
Ha. I had to say it. Perhaps the Numenoreans ventured into Mordor and dragged back some volcanic rock to build their tower in Isengard.