Admin thread for TIG Whatever - Mith's game

[Aganzir]

So so sorry Mith.

I agree with everything that has been said - it was not supposed to upset you nor anyone else. I'm truly sorry others have to suffer because of our prank, and at least I'd be happy to be modfired if it means the game can keep going.

edit: xed with Kath & can second her.

[Mithalwen]

I am going to have to sleep on this or try too. Maybe I will see the funny side of half the players having a discussion off thread and ganging up to do the ONE thing I asked you didn't. Maybe I will find someone to take over the modding. I know at least one of the players not involved isn't happy. I can't decide what is fairest.

[Brinniel]

There's not much to add to the explanation than what's already been said. But I do want to extend my apologies. Surely you know that none of us ever intended to hurt or offend you or any of the players that weren't involved. I hate the idea that I have hurt someone and it makes me tearful to know that I have.

I understand perfectly if you do choose to modfire all of us. It's ultimately your decision and we deserve whatever you think is fair. However, I do request that you at least keep Lariren in the game. She wasn't part of the chat itself (only simply watching it) and was encouraged by all of us to take part. I'd hate to see her kicked out of her first game because of us. And of course, the phantom must stay; he had nothing to do with this.

I hate to think your game completely destroyed, Mith, and if modfiring all of us will make things even worse, then I hope you will consider otherwise. And I most certainly hope you choose to stay the mod as you have done a wonderful job so far and no one else could do you justice. If you wish to see at least someone modfired, I'll happily remove myself from the game. I feel rather guilty, especially since I invited everyone into the chat in the first place. I never intended for us to discuss WW; I simply wanted to revive the earlier days when I used to chat with several BDers at once. But obviously, things got out of hand. It's apparent now that BDers probably shouldn't be involved in any sort of IM with one another during a WW game as only bad things seem to come from it. After this disaster, I don't think I can bring myself to do anymore chatting anytime soon. And I'm seriously considering abstaining from future WW games as well, I feel so awful.

I could say sorry a hundred more times, but I don't think the words could even begin to express how I truly feel.

[Boromir88]

It doesn't sound like anything that would compromise the game went on. It was a joke, perhaps one in poor taste, but a joke to get some laughs nonetheless. I would hate to see so many great and fun players booted after this. It probably wasn't thought out well, and looks more like a group of singers who wanted to give you a good show, not to cause anyone harm, or to grab an unfair advantage. One thing though, you're the judge, and we'll all accept your decision.

[Nogrod]

It seems werewolf-games draw catastrophies to themselves like magnets...

Just as someone already off the game I'd just like to say a few things.


The basic rule says that people should not interact amongst themselves privately while a game is underway eg. like no PM's or such. The reason for that is simple and understandable but very hard to follow. Many people like to socialise both online and in RL with their mates even if a game is going and it's hard and foolish to try and deny anyone from social relationships. Like in my case, I may play a WW-game during a weekend / holidays when Lommy & Greenie are at my place and are in the game as well - but I couldn't imagine myself refusing their company because there is a WW-game on.

So the question - as I see it - is not so much whether you are in contact with other people in the game while the game is on but about the nature of your contact with those other players. And here I do understand why Mith feels hurt.

Yes, it happens every now and then that we (Lommy, Greenie, myself) fex. read the thread together and there are spontaneous reactions to things said in the thread as well as some calculated or forced ones made in that company while reading but we at least try to minimize that kind of exposure because of the danger lurking there. I mean it's probably one or two times Lommy has gotten a more than a good hint of my role because I have slipped something unintentionally. And that is bad, gamewise.

But gathering around to actually discuss the Werewolf - even if not specifically this one as you say and which I honestly do believe - seems to be a bit off the mark. And making a mutual decision that goes into the game just makes it worse. It's like some of the people had their own "meta-game" when all were not in place. So I can also see why some who were not involved in the msn-discussion feel left as outsiders of the game as well.

And clearly Mith had specifically said she wouldn't like to see the retracktable votes being used carelessly and that the unnecessary use of them was subject to a modfire...


I don't see a reason for anyone to restrain themselves from meeting each other in RL or in msn (or myspace or other Downs-discussions) but some restraint could be in place as to what is discussed while a game is going - even if it is basically "harmless".

Yes it was half the players (or just almost a half?) but still the other half of the players and the mod were outside the discussion which led into those votes that were "true" in-game.

Had that vote for Legate been spontaneous it would have been hilarious - at least to my view it would have been. But put yourselves into the shoes of a mod who realises that the people playing have been plotting outside the game to act in one way or another in the actual game. I'm probably too sanguine a person to have been offended by that personally but it would have led me to think about those who were not part of the practical joke and how they would feel about it.


Anyway I do suggest that you Mith let the game go on and maybe give those who partook in the Legate-vote an official "warning" meaning fex. that they have no longer a right to use a retractable vote or something like that. That way there would be a consequence and still the game could go on.

It would be sad to see such an interesting set up & story and a fabulous gathering of players go wasted just because of an ill-advised prank.

Hoping to see this game to the end!

[Boromir88]

Nog, it is absolutely understandable in a Mod's shoes. Now, I've never been a mod, I told Mith before this one, I don't have the responsibility. We all know the time, and effort, Mods put (especially Mith) to creating a great and enjoyable game. Was it not thought out and a bad prank? Yes. But sometimes knowing you've upset a dear and respected friend, when you didn't mean to at all, is punishment enough.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Most of the reasoning behind the voting was that we thought since Legate wasn't playing, it wouldn't be a "real" vote. I apologize if we upset you, Mith.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But sometimes knowing you've upset a dear and respected friend, when you didn't mean to at all, is punishment enough.

So true.

I was just trying to suggest an honourable way out of the stale-mate for you to continue the game...

[Gwathagor]

Wow...seems I missed quite a Day.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Posthumous victory!

Positive success that taking one for the team totally works!

Boromir you sly dog! By the way, I ALREADY KNEW I WAS A CRITIC! I really didn't need that piece of insight.

Anybody wondering about the reasoning behind the first two night deaths, Lari wasn't kidding when she said that was all me. I was systematically removing players who stood a chance of identifying my motives. I screamed when the phantom didn't stop talking after I'd offed him!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Posthumous victory!

Positive success that taking one for the team totally works!

Boromir you sly dog! By the way, I ALREADY KNEW I WAS A CRITIC! I really didn't need that piece of insight.

I know.. but I thought it might help you to knew he knew.

Wildman's dreams were Fea, Mac, and Aganzir I think - I'll just check.

EDIT No it was Fea, Kath and Aganzir

[the phantom]

Just so you people know, I did try and help in a small way a couple of times. But the one strict rule Mith gave me from the beginning was not to step on Walter's toes. So I didn't feel that I could attack Boro.

I did, however, try to make him more likely to be Night-killed. Remember when I said this-

Heh. Boro aint the Divo. If he was, he'd have let me know somehow.

No, no, he's an Ordo, and thus he fears death at night. No doubt that is why he chose to greet the village the way he did- with a pseudonym. He greeted us as "Smithee" (from "Alan Smithee" I assume), the director's version of "Walter Plinge". He wanted to plant the idea with the Wolves from the beginning that he was Walter, thus decreasing his chances of dying and increasing the chances that the real Walter would be done in.

I was trying to make it look like he was an Ordo fooling the Critics into thinking he was Walter, thus making him a possible Critic target. As things were, I knew he wouldn't be Night killed, for I figured the Critics suspected him as Walter. So I tried to shake that assumption.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Just so you people know, I did try and help in a small way a couple of times. But the one strict rule Mith gave me from the beginning was not to step on Walter's toes. So I didn't feel that I could attack Boro.

Oh bother did I say that? That was when I thought they were at a disadvantage.... gah

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I knew he wouldn't be Night killed, for I figured the Critics suspected him as Walter. So I tried to shake that assumption.

Yeah, I guessed he was Walter about the same time I decided you needed to go. I'm glad my co-critics didn't off him once I'd died, as I know they were thinking about it...

Speaking of, did one you save the PMs? Can we see them?

[Cailín]

Congratulations, baddies. Quite a good game, and Mith's modding was awesome: rarely seen a mod who is so involved with the proceedings.

I was reading over my posts the night after Aganzir passionately murdered me, and found myself quite obnoxious and arrogant, really. So, apologies, though you can imagine how frustrated I was (we've all been there) especially after Sally's outrageous analysis.

You may not be surprised to hear I was the one who requested to be an ordinary villager. And I had too little time even for that at the start of the game. Still, feel pretty pleased that I did identify Boromir as the Cobbler, and was close on the trail of the two remaining Critics.

Oh, and thanks Mac, for the vote of confidence there.