Rohan and Lorien

[Rumil]

Hi all,

It does seem strange and uinlikely overall that there was no contact.

The reasons I think include the extreme insularity of the elves and the uneasy superstitousness of the Rohirrim, as has been said.

Also there is an aspect of differing ecological niche, the Rohirrim are set up for life on plains, horse-riding herdsmen. They are not really interested in the woods as there's no grazing, and may even be frightened of the woods as unfamiliar terrain. In many aspects they appear half-nomadic, not making permanent settlements except their strongholds at the foot of the White mountains. They used tents on the trip to Minas Tirith, like the Mongols and yurts perhaps? Therefore the North Western areas appear to have no permanent settlements, but are occasionally visited by the nomadic herdsmen and their herds.

Conversely the elves don't appear to have much in the way of horses and due to the 'embalming' nature that has been well discussed, are not much interested in venturing away from their forest.

Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And Rohanites, for all their undoubted virtues, were not noted
for farsighted diplomacy, witness their shortsighted
treatment of the Dunlanders (whose territory they
did occupy- reminiscent of American Indian and
aboiriginal history), especially since the people of
Dunland were alienated but were secure in the
borders near Rohan (somewhat the way Afghans have
reacted to repeated foreign incursions). Also the unwise,
if granted generally justified, treatment of Freca by Helm-which
contributed to Rohan's occupation.

Btw, in PJ's flawed TTT movie, I liked the bit of having Helm
Hammerhand's statue in the courtyard without specific
allusiion (rather like the trolls in the much better FOTR).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Hi all,
Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

Inzil is, of course, correct. You must take the superstitious nature of the Rohirrim in context with the dark world of 3rd Age Middle-earth, where there was more than just 'sprites and bogies' overturning milk buckets. Orcs were harrying Rohan's borders and there were dragons lurking in the history of the Eotheod. The Rohirrim looked on Lorien with dread, and rightly so. There was indeed a supernatural and palpable otherworldy presence lurking in the Golden Wood.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

True indeed. Even so, other evidence would suggest he was in the minority by living so far north. Even if there was a small settlement in the Wold, the northern boundary of Rohan was the river Limlight. A cursory glance at the maps supplied with LOTR shows Lórien many miles to the north of that. What reason would any of the Rohirrim have for crossing that river and coming, even by accident, to Lórien? By the same token, is there any evidence the Lórien Elves ever wandered far enough out of the forest to have come into contact with the Men of Rohan?
All references I've seen point to the idea that the Rohirrim had almost no knowledge of Lórien or Galadriel, beyond far off myths and legends from who knows how many centuries back.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

And I would second the observation that, even had some Rohir had been so hardy or curious as to venture into the eaves of the Golden Wood, he wouldn't have been admitted. The Fellowship was only let in because they had reservations, so to speak, and were led by Aragorn.

This is not to say that the Elves would have shot an innocent Son of Eorl! It's hinted that Lorien was an echo of Doriath with its Girdle, and unwanted intruders would simply have been mazed and bewildered- no doubt this occurred from time to time, and contributed to the place's uncanny reputation.