The Way We War

[Kuruharan]

Tolkien never claimed all dwarves used axes, or even used them generally in battle, that is an accretion piled on Tolkien lore from elsewhere (like dwarves speaking in a Scot's accent, laddie).

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think we do have evidence that Tolkien thought of the axe as being the primary dwarven weapon.

Gimli used an axe (obviously). Thorin used an axe at the Battle of Five Armies and Azanulbizar. When speaking of Thorin's condition in exile Tolkien used the phrase "the axes of his people were few." The dwarves whalloped Glaurung with "their great axes."

I can't recall any good example from the Middle Ages now, but for example among the ancient Israeli warriors there has been a caste of special fighters trained to fight left-handedly, or such, you have all sorts of special groups of warriors trained to fight with some unusual weapon or in some unusual style throughout the cultures and times, so perhaps the Dwarven axemen were something of that sort, too?

It is an interesting theory. I'm not sure its one I can agree with, but it is interesting.

Is there any evidence that the Dwarves used distance weapons of any kind? Bows, javelins, catapult, trebuchet, slingshot, whatever?

Thorin used a bow that just happeend to be lying around (implying that the dwarves kept stockpiles of them to use) to shoot at the messenger. The dwarves did use (without much success) the bows Beorn gave them...which I think has largely led to the stereotype that dwarves can't use bows effectively.

Slings would be an interesting weapon for dwarves to use if they were incapable of using a bow effectively, but I don't think there is a single example in Tolkien of a sling being used.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Gimli used an axe (obviously). Thorin used an axe at the Battle of Five Armies and Azanulbizar. When speaking of Thorin's condition in exile Tolkien used the phrase "the axes of his people were few." The dwarves whalloped Glaurung with "their great axes."

Well, as for the Thorin thing, that could be a very nice way of Dwarven phrasing, a saying, if the axes were something specific. It would only emphasise that Thorin was not doing very well, he "did not reach the status of nobility" in the exile, beside that his men just were small in numbers. Of course, here I am unleashing my imagination.

As for the other occassions, Glaurung - that could be one of these occassions when the "special forces" with axes managed to do something.

And in either case, we have the evidence of the Battle of the Five Armies, like Morth pointed out - I believe the equipment of a regular soldier - i.e. not the elite, but also not the random "armed civilians" - could have been like the one described there.

As for the missile weapons, I would believe the Dwarves would be capable of using bows at least, like Kuru said, and I think it's not necessary that they would be bad in it - but one has to bear in mind that the primary fighting condition for a Dwarf would be underground. And, except for some really large underground caverns or long corridors, not mentioning the darkness, the missile weapons are not really built for that.

[BGreg]

I'm pretty sure the dwarves did use missile weapons. How else would they defend the Bridge of Khazad-dum, which seems to be built exactly to be defended with arrows.
Of course, there would be axe-wielding dwarves on the western end, but archers were certainly needed to pepper the attackers and not to allow them to form their own bowmen line on the eastern side of the bridge.

Besides, Thorin was pretty accurate with a bow, killing that deer over the Enchanted Stream, and firing an arrow directly to the messenger's shield. He didn't mean to kill him, I'm sure. Why the other dwarves weren't succesful shooting the animals in Mirkwood, I cannot say. Perhaps something was afoul with the squirrels there.

[davem]

"...the battle cry which (Gimli) uttered in the siege of the Hornburg. That at least was not secret, and had been heard on many a field since the world was young. Baruk Khazad! Khazad aimenu! 'Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!'" - LotR Appendix F

My feeling is that the axe is the favoured weapon - though there are many kinds of war/battle-axe http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/ba/BATTLE-AXE.HTM & most can be thrown - some were designed for that purpose. I don't see that the height of an opponent comes into it - you just need a longer haft to extend your reach.

None of which rules out the use of other weaponry - the sword was always the weapon of a knight, even down to the fifteenth century, when development of plate armour had rendered it all but useless against all other knights. The sword was the symbolic weapon of a knight - but in battle he would be more likely to use a pollaxe, battle hammer or shortened lance, etc.

The problem with swords is that the Dwarves are too short to use anything longer than a foot or two, which would allow their enemies to get too close. And a long hafted axe is probably the ideal weapon for bringing an enemy down to your size - you just cut them off at the knees.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I would think a devastating dwarf weapon,
especially for use against cavalry would be
something akin to the Swiss halberd.
Obviously shortened for Middle-earth dwarf use.

[A halberd (also called halbert or Swiss voulge) is a two-handed pole weapon that came to prominent use during the 14th and 15th centuries. Possibly the word halberd comes from the German words Halm (staff), and Barte (axe). The halberd consists of an axe blade topped with a spike mounted on a long shaft. It always has a hook or thorn on the back side of the axe blade for grappling mounted combatants. It is very similar to certain forms of the voulge in design and usage. The halberd was 1.5 to 1.8 meters (4 to 6 feet) long.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

I would think a devastating dwarf weapon,
especially for use against cavalry would be
something like the Swiss halberd.

I think this is an important point - as I've indicated, the term 'axe' covers a wide range of bladed weapons, & the halberd/pollaxe 'hook' could be used to bring an orc off a warg, but equally could be used to hook a taller opponent around the neck or leg & bring them down to earth, where they could be quickly dispatched.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

I would think a devastating dwarf weapon,
especially for use against cavalry would be
something akin to the Swiss halberd.
Obviously shortened for Middle-earth dwarf use.

Ha, yes, that actually sounds good. Indeed, it would have been shortened a lot, though.

Still, we have to count on the one thing - that the battle against tall Men or even cavalry, and archery combat were really not regular forms of battle for the Dwarves. 90% of their battles were against Orcs and underground. Sure, as BGreg says, circumstances like Durin's bridge supported the use of ranged weapons, but these were rare cases. The Dwarves did for sure use bows, they knew how to use them - but most of their time, they simply were not in the circumstances to even use them. Though I believe they made sure, as dilligent as they were, to train their own kin to use them to the best of their ability just for the case when it would be handy.

[davem]

Another point to be considered when looking at possible types of weapon - on a medieval battlefield the main concern was taking your opponent out of action - it didn't matter whether or not you killed them, only that they couldn't kill you. So, a quick death in battle was often the exception rather than the rule (hence the 'misericorde' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misericorde_(weapon) carried by warriors to dispatch wounded foes with a quick stab through the eye socket into the brain after the main fighting was over). A heavy weapon like an axe will do that more quickly & effectively than a sword (short or long), particularly if your opponent is wearing armour - an axe or hammer blow would break bones even beneath plate armour, let alone mail.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Ha, yes, that actually sounds good. Indeed, it would have been shortened a lot, though.

I don't see why. Thorin (by the way, I love that everyone is using him as an analogy so often) wielded Orcrist, an elven sword, which was made to fit the stature of a tall elven king.

Originally Posted by Davem

An axe has the advantage over a sword in that its heavier blade (as has been noted) will break bones or damage internal organs even when there is no penetration. And swords blunt (& bend) more easily than an axe or battle hammer.

Exactly! thank you Davem for making that point. Not only does the axe have the power to wound its opponents upon the battle field, but it can also be crafted into different uses. As it has been mentioned, a Dwarf could take up a halberd for against calvary such as warg riders and wain riders; or a Dwarf could take up a small throwing axe (as seen in the trilogy) or a larger Francisca type axe.

Perhaps it was a familial thing, with the Iron Hill folk preferring mattocks over the Erebor folks use of axes.

It seems to be that this just proves that the Dwarves were in a hurry to get to Erebor and to aid Thorin. Mustering an army of 500 Dwarves in so short a time is no small feat and I'm sure they could not all be armed in time, ergo they would grab the closest fighting tool. What is a miners favorite tool (I mean besides dynamite): a pickaxe, or a mattock. Some interesting things about a mattock is that it has a flat edge for scooping at dirt and a pointed end (sometimes three pronged). With that sharp end on it, a Dwarf could easily pierce through plate and shield alike.

Continuing Eonwe's thought about Tuor, it is also worth noting that the most valiant and numerous house of the elves of Gondolin were the house of the House of the Hammer(Hammer of Wrath). They were great smiths and craftsmen, and revered Aulë. In battle they carried great maces like hammers, and heavy shields, for they had strong arms. The device of this people was the Stricken Anvil, and a hammer that smites sparks about it; this was set upon their shields, for red gold and black iron was their delight. So again we see the relationship between smiths and Aulë, to whom the Dwarves were obviously close to, and their favored weapon: the mace, or axe.

I would have to agree with those who say that Dwarves have the nature to go berserk in battle instead of fighting Roman style. The warriors of The House of the Hammer were certainly berserk in their fighting style and the reference to the Dwarves of the Iron Hills don't strike me as the organized type. Of course, if the Dwarves were to be fighting in an organized fashion, the Roman/Greek style would be the one that would make the most sense.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

It seems to be that this just proves that the Dwarves were in a hurry to get to Erebor and to aid Thorin. Mustering an army of 500 Dwarves in so short a time is no small feat and I'm sure they could not all be armed in time, ergo they would grab the closest fighting tool.

So, you're saying that they had no time to grab their axes, but had time to grab their short swords and shields and don their iron helmets and their chain mail hauberks and mail hose?

Ummm...no, Groin.

Mattocks would seem to be the preferred weapon for the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, with a sword as an auxiliary stabbing weapon for close quarter combat.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Not only does the axe have the power to wound its opponents upon the battle field, but it can also be crafted into different uses. As it has been mentioned, a Dwarf could take up a halberd for against calvary such as warg riders and wain riders; or a Dwarf could take up a small throwing axe (as seen in the trilogy) or a larger Francisca type axe.

Exactly, and as I was saying, Dwarves would have no problem making such weapons (or ones more adjusted to their way of fighting, or even just better- think they way we'd have gone with no gunpowder/explosives/greek fire). And as they are so strong and hardy, I suppose they could carry heavy weapons that humans of a similar size (or really tall hobbits) couldn't, and not get tired.

On Dain's small army, if you think about, mattocks aren't actually that bad for fighting with. They can cause crush injuries through armour, and could also probably pierce it.

I like the image of them being beserker warriors (not actually wearing bear skins, or being Beorn, but you ge t the idea), but I think they'd be a bit more organised (though not like the Roman and Greek phalanxes.