A "Complete Silmarillion" in Spanish

[Maédhros]

Do you plan on sharing it?

I'm fluent in spanish and i would be interested in seeing it too, if it were possible?

[Findegil]

Hello Gondowe,

Even so I can not read Spanish at all, I would very much appreciate if you would share your Ideas about the work undertaken. I know that a complete comparison is out of question, but probably you can highlight some point of divergence between our work and yours?

Respectfuly
Findegil

P.S.: Even so my time is very limited in the moment, I would very much like to go on with this project. What is about my long term colleges Meadhros and Aiwendil, are we able to go on?

[Maédhros]

P.S.: Even so my time is very limited in the moment, I would very much like to go on with this project. What is about my long term colleges Meadhros and Aiwendil, are we able to go on?

Yes, I'm able to go on, but like yourself, my time is limited. Let me pm you as to what it is we should be discussing in the proyect.

[gondowe]

I'm pleased to know that you're interested in my ideas and if I can contribute with my opinion I'll be double pleased.

First of all I have to say my ideas about the canonical works and its interpretation.
I think basically that as an exemplary mythology, this one of Middle-Earth is unfinished and formed by multiple texts, some of them merely rough copies or first drafts.
With this in mind I think we can not invent nothing apart for editorial sentences to join the established ideas of Tolkien (as did Christopher), even names (except some few in “Fall of Gondolin” about I’ll say later).

The basis for the complete text must be the material from the end of the writing of The Lord of the Rings to the early 60’s, Then complete with old texts as next to the 50’s as we can. From the texts of later 60’s we can only take some few ideas, for the most are essays and rough notes about a later development than never came, (such as the number of Balrogs, the origin of orcs, etc, even the post- Lord of the Rings Round version of Arda due to the need of a complete restructuration of the corpus impossible to Tolkien because his age, and to us for the need of invent.)

To sum up, we can not complicate us and limit to the above.

I assume The Children of Húrin as canonical and I left aside the work on the Narn I hin Hurin. And adding some material (Dragon helm and Saeros) to the chapter in Translations.

I have both books printed with a single “binding” with plastic and rings. The front page with the title reads

Traducciones del élfico J.R.R: Tolkien one

La caída de Gondolin J.R.R. Tolkien the other


The next page contains a note of the origins of this material. It reads translated.

These texts were constructed from myths of Eressëa and Númenor preserved in several sources and translated to modern language by JRRT.
Were compiled, edited and published firsr by his son CRT.
Reconstructed and edited second from the published texts by Gondowë.

I think that the history of Eriol/Aelfwine can be still possible (although I omit it) and can be compatible with "The Red book" of the hobbits

The next are the titles of the “real tales” in fëanorian characters first and then:

1 A Ainulindale, etc
B Valaquenta, etc
C Eldanyare Quenta Silmarillion o Histora de los Eldar o Historia de los Silmarils
D Atalante o Akallabeth, etc
E De los Anillos de Poder (Of the rings of Power)
F De la Tercera Edad (Of the Third Age)

2 Narn e- Dant Gondolin o Historia de la Caida de Gondolin (HIstory of the Fall of Gondolin)

On the development of the texts I’ll write other day, I must go working, I'm too very busy.

Greetings.

[gondowe]

In the matter of the Narn e-Dant Gondolin I made a division in chapters after the publication of The Children of Húrin, translated more or less:

The birth of Tuor
Tuor slave and outlaw
The call of Ulmo
The arriving at Vinyamar
The speech of Tuor and Ulmo
Voronwë
The quest of Gondolin
The hidden pass
The arriving at Gondolin
Of Tuor in Gondolin and the birth of the New Star
The Treason of Maeglin
The Battle of Gondolin
The Flight of the exiles

In the first part, the “later Tuor”, I don’t remember to have made any change, apart for the chapters.

In the second part, that I remember have made are:

In the matter of the names, I considered the names on this web of the city The seven names Ondolindë, Gondobar, Gondolindrinbar, Gwarestrin, Garthoren, Loth, Gondolin.
The names of the Chieftains of the houses remains the same except Talagand (again I accepted from this web), I think is the only ones we have and can not invent others.
In the polemic mention of Legolas, I changed this one for Galdor that was among the exiles too. I assume this one and Glorfindel are the same as in TLOTR
I changed the word Balrogs for Balrog, omitted the metal in the serpents, goblins for orcs, etc, updating the rest to the well known.

I introduced many sentences and matters from other sources, like mention to Argon Elenwë and Idril in the ice, Gond dolen, the speech of Thorondor and Turgon from TWOH, (speech I resumed in the chapter of “Translations), the history of Enherdil and the Elessar, Anguirel as the sword of Maeglin, Glamdring as the sword of Turgon, the same fate of Maeglin and his father...

Of course there were the changes in geography as the house of Tuor in the north, Cirith Thoronath also in the north, Orfalch Echor, etc.

For the construction of the text, I think I made a good work, but it’s my proud opinion. It can be made in many different forms. But the few texts I’ve read from this web are very similar, not the same, but very similar.

Greetings.

[Findegil]

As might be suspected, I have a view questions:
- Since I never saw any sign of your chapterheadings, I assume you invented them. For what reason did you do that?

- Legolas: Did I understand you right, that you removed Legolas as the guid during the night by Galdor the Lord of the people of the Tree?

- Balrogs: Did you realy change every meention of Balrogs to a singular Balrog? Would that mean that Tuor, Ecthelion, and Rog each killed a Balrog? Even so before hand you did not mention more than one Balrog?

- May be I am just a bit slow this morning but Gond dolen did not ring any bell with me. Could you give a bit more information.

- The same is true for the speech of Thorondor and Turgon from WH. Can you give a more specific source information.

- How did you handel the escape from the battle, when you placed Tuor's house in the north of the city? Or did you change the direction of the attack to come from the south?

- How did you handel the fugetives that seperated from Tuor to take the old way of escape?

Respectfuly
Findegil

[gondowe]

Originally Posted by Findegil

As might be suspected, I have a view questions:
- Since I never saw any sign of your chapterheadings, I assume you invented them. For what reason did you do that?

Yes I invented them. After the publication of The Children of Hurin I wanted that his cousin had a similar story, and that invention (I think) is not against the story and don’t changes anything wrote by Tolkien. It’s only a heading.

Originally Posted by Findegil

- Legolas: Did I understand you right, that you removed Legolas as the guid during the night by Galdor the Lord of the people of the Tree?

Yes, if we assume as truth (in this case I think it can be possible) the matter of names and elves, there can not be there anyone called Legolas here unless he was the same as in the LOTR, and we know is not the case. I think Galdor is a good solution, he also was there (and of the same house), and is not told to have died anywhere.
And

Originally Posted by Findegil

- How did you handel the fugetives that seperated from Tuor to take the old way of escape?

To omit is not to lie, simply there were no separation because they knew that the Orfalch Echor (The way of escape) had been closed many years ago. (And it’s told in my version).

Originally Posted by Findegil

- Balrogs: Did you realy change every meention of Balrogs to a singular Balrog? Would that mean that Tuor, Ecthelion, and Rog each killed a Balrog? Even so before hand you did not mention more than one Balrog?

All we know that in later mythology there can not be hundreds of Balrogs, but I don’t think really that Tolkien considered in an hypothetically revision to exit from the beginning only seven Balrogs, (Balrogs dead when the other battles, the battle of Gondolin, and the last battle, apart for that one of Moria).
With this, yes, each one killed a balrog, (we are in the First age, everyone are more powerful, elves and Tuor!!!). I don’t remember how many balrogs are mentioned in my version but I think don’t matters, for they are few, and coherent and I think credible.

Originally Posted by Findegil

- May be I am just a bit slow this morning but Gond dolen did not ring any bell with me. Could you give a bit more information.

As for Gond Dolen“Hidden Rock” for the origin of the word Gondolin ( I introduced when they are telling Tuor things about the city and its history, as the history of the Ice), I remember is mentioned in the Appendix of elements of Quenya and sindarin at the end of The Silmarillion published. As the most part of the text was made many years ago I don’t remember if it’s mentioned in other book.

Originally Posted by Findegil

- The same is true for the speech of Thorondor and Turgon from WH. Can you give a more specific source information.

In WH when Húrin is searching the way to Gondolin, the eagles watched him, and Thorondor went to Turgon, these words I introduced in FoG, and in the chapter “Of the wanderings of Húrin”, I introduced in the other book, (as I will tell later), I resumed the speech for no repetition.

Originally Posted by Findegil

- How did you handel the escape from the battle, when you placed Tuor's house in the north of the city? Or did you change the direction of the attack to come from the south?

Since the Cirith Thoronath is now in the North, I think the house of Tuor there must be in the north. I think we can put it wherever we want, because there’s no more information about it. The characteristics of the stone of Amon Gwared, as it’s said by Tuor, makes very difficult the excavation, (even for the Noldor) and I think that as Tolkien put house south/Cristhorn south in the old version, we can put the other now, making the tunnel as short as we can.
The attack of course is from the north, but in the time of the flight (as I think is said) there were enemies around all Amon Gwared, North, West, South and East, and the escape from the north could have been the less expected by Morgoth.

Greetings