Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I think Hansy was talking about the Werewolf team dreaming of the Queen - then somehow blackmailing her to do their bidding; lest they lead her to her death.

That sort of makes sense, but then wouldn't the Black Queen just start killing the Wolves instead. And how could they blackmail the Black Queen? Say the Black Rook is hunting xem? Interesting point though, but since the Black Queen is on xyr there is no reason to play nice with the Wolves. The Wolves could try to get the Black Queen lynched though.

Edit: x-posted with Rikea and fix typo of gender neutral.

[Rikae]

I believe it is -

he, she, xe
his, her, xyr
him, her, xem

But I didn't double check, so I may be wrong.

EDIT - handy mnemonic device - just think of the singular 'they'. They/xe, their/xyr, them/xem.

[Lariren Shadow]

Thanks, I'll change it. Really I actually sat here trying to remember what it was before making it up.

[Hansy]

The wolves have their nightkill too. it's a risky move, but the reward would be huge: controlling two kills a night, making sure their players aren't going to be incriminated. Or even better, making the Black Queen look bad, so that the innocents focus their attention on her.

@Nogrod: I don't plan to do such thing if I ever get a cobbler role, don't worry. just brainstorming here.

@Eonwe: Them = she = black queen.

...don't ask how my use of pronouns got like that.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

They just have gifts because they can also be attacked at Night (by the Black Queen - and hopefully also by the White Queen).

Yes, I too have been wondering what in the world the White Queen does. Attacking the Werewolves certainly, but in what way? I suppose we'll have to wait and see. If something odd happens, we can begin making decent guesses.

And about the business of the White Gifteds being able to PM if the Bishop spots them... that sort of puts Pawns in a tricky situation. What I mean is, it would obviously be great if the Bishop, Knight, and Rook were able to speak with each other, therefore a Pawn might think it is in the best interest of the game to do everything possible to avoid a dream (so it isn't wasted on them).

But at the same time, Gifteds can prove themselves to some extent, while a Pawn cannot. Late in the game, would you rather have a Seer-dreamed Knight, or a Seer-dreamed Pawn plus a Knight reveal with good supporting evidence? Either way you get a known non-Beast, but the second way you gain the advantage of knowing two people not to vote for.

So really, dreaming of a Pawn is certainly not a great loss from an odds perspective. Though the Bishop being able to tell the Rook exactly who not to hunt and the Knight precisely who to protect does seem to be rather powerful.

So what to do about it? Usually when I am not evil I desperately want to be dreamed of so that I can be trusted, and so that the Wolves will be forced to kill me (I like to exit before the end-game, I hate the pressure of the last couple days, I'd rather be dead at that point). But under this set up a Pawn is tempted to be less selfish and try to avoid the Bishop dream so that it can be used on a better target (either Black piece or White Gifted).

But if someone is obviously trying to avoid being dreamed of (or asks not to be dreamed of)- that looks ridiculously suspicious, and might lead to lynching! And an innocent who knowingly places himself at the front of the lynch line is certainly not doing his part to lynch Werecreatures.

So what we're left with is a scenario in which there is no correct answer for behavior. Not that there ever is just one answer. It's just that this time both choices are so obviously flawed.

[Isabellkya]

I find you not liking the pressure of the end game (as a non evil) ... an odd one phantom.
There fore, I think it would be fun to see you sweat it out once. xD

In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?
We won't know (I assume) until the game is over. So, what kind of help is that going to lend us; when dealing with the evilies that we do know about?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kya

There fore, I think it would be fun to see you sweat it out once.

I did have to do that once. In Fea's blind luck game. It was me, SPM, and Mith left on the final day. And while it was amazing, memorable, fun to read, and we ended up winning, it is not something I look forward to doing again. I swear- if it looks like things are headed that way, I will start acting as suspiciously as possible just so I don't have to go through that nail-biting again.

Originally Posted by Kya

In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?

I agree that at this point it doesn't get us anywhere. But if something unexplained happens at any point, then I would say that it should be discussed, for if we can perhaps get a bead on the way the role works, we can factor it into our plans for impacting the village.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?

Not much, but it's as a good a thing as any to talk about on Day 1.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

We won't know (I assume) until the game is over. So, what kind of help is that going to lend us; when dealing with the evilies that we do know about?

It's probably better not to say even if you do work it out, as then it will give the baddies (or evilies as you call them) more of a chance to find xer (or is the correct term xem?)

edit: x-ed wid tp

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Izzy

In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?

Maybe little to nothing now, but we may be able to get some clues by how night narrations play out. I, for one, would love her to have some sort of ranger-type capacity with this whole "double kill" thing...

But how much purpose is there in explanation? Dwell too much on it and we either look like baddies (except, baddies should only speculate to one another and not in-game) or we give the baddies ideas.

The "focus on the bear, focus on the wolf" thing is a bit of a problem. The more difficult one has much higher rewards; the one that won't pay off as much is easier to manage. So really it's better to keep both in mind and not focus on one to the exclusion of the other. The wolves would love to have us focus on the bear, because we're hunting in the haystack for needles. Less pressure on them. So even though it'd be GREAT to have the bear, let's not focus on her to exclusion. (Not that anyone was going to do that, but still.) I'd rather put all my effort on the wolves; if we catch the bear, well, great.

Also, remember that the bear is JUST as clueless as we are (at the moment); in trying to kill an innocent during this early "better cooperate with the wolves" phase she may end up killing one by accident/on purpose. Whereas the wolves have their own seer.

[Rikae]

What you said about the bear and wolves is sensible enough, Mnemi, but this is something that has been bugging me for a while in werewolf games, and I might as well mention it now -
there is absolutely no point in telling people what they should or should not focus on, especially before they've even started focusing on it.

[the phantom]

Yes, because they just end up focusing on me.

So really... pointless to make suggestions.

[Isabellkya]

It doesn't count if you are jumping up and down, waving your arms about - phantom. xD

[wilwarin538]

Just to let you all know that I am around and have read almost everything that's been said. Don't have as much time now to say much, but I'm happy that the banter is over!

I'll be back in about 6 hours, and I'll post a longish post about my thoughts on everyone, and depending on whether voting has started or not, I will probably vote.

Be prepared for me to bandwagon, there are so many players in this game I'm not familiar with so until we get into Day 2 it will be tough for me to get a read on some of you. Just to warn you ahead of time so that it isn't held against me next Day.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

The wolves would love to have us focus on the bear, because we're hunting in the haystack for needles. Less pressure on them. So even though it'd be GREAT to have the bear, let's not focus on her to exclusion. (Not that anyone was going to do that, but still.) I'd rather put all my effort on the wolves; if we catch the bear, well, great.

How do you focus on the Black Queen at the moment? If you have an idea please share... "That person looks like she's bit of a loner?"

If the baddies do not make some quite serious mistakes toDay we can still get one, but basically only with luck. I'm afraid that's all there is to hope for. But surely the more people discuss the more material there is to find a mistake from - or more chances for someone to blunder with a reaction, a tone, a stance or an attitude. So I do share Rikae's stance that Day1's can be productive not only afterwards but already on Day1. I have now some time to go back to the thread and try to see if there is anything that could help...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

s.

The "focus on the bear, focus on the wolf" thing is a bit of a problem. The more difficult one has much higher rewards; the one that won't pay off as much is easier to manage.

I say we ought to focus on neither/both.