Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

*throws a wrench in the works and runs away laughing*

I just read that as "*throws a wench in the works...*
I blame Sally for this (see post #4 for more info).

edit: correction and link. No x-posting sadly.

[the phantom]

Good to see you again Wilwa. I remember that it was you who hosted one of the best Werewolf games ever.

Originally Posted by Kya

It doesn't count if you are jumping up and down, waving your arms about

Oh, right.

*tries to hold perfectly still*

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

there is absolutely no point in telling people what they should or should not focus on, especially before they've even started focusing on it.

Originally Posted by the phantom

how likely is it that someone will be strongly suspected of looking like the Black Queen? That piece is on a team of its own. There will be no sort of teamwork to look for. I imagine the WereBear will be indistinguishable from a pawn. So how productive is it to even look for him?

Originally Posted by sally

Although we need to kill the Black Queen post haste.

Maybe I misread the quotes above, but people already have started focusing. My post was supposed to be in response to that.

And to (publicly, at least) inform people of how I was going to try to focus myself.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I have to peace out, so here's my early vote:

eenie meenie miny

++Hansy

Because I'm not in nearly a good enough mood to be nice to newbies for the sheer sake of it, and Nog has a way of saying interesting things on Day One.

[Durelin]

I'm afraid I have a party to go to, so I will be posting and running here... I will be around more after toDay, promise. Unless something goes terribly wrong. I'm a realist.

And of course Han shot first - I don't get why the heck it matters. All it proves is that he's quicker to the draw and Greedo isn't that horrible of a shot.

Anyway...there's already a few people I'd like to get rid of just for the sake of being rid of them, but part of my beef with werewolf is when people simply play favorites...so I'm going to go for as random as possible here.

++Sally

Just looking at who has posted, anyway, I picked out her on some sort of gut-reaction thing. The typical excuse. It's like pleading the 5th...my stomach told me to do it!

Really I quite enjoy your presence, my dear, but...

See you all tomorrow...quite sorry, I really will have more time (if y'all will let me...) after this. Today I happen to have basically none.

Edit: Fea, I have a feeling you and I will be getting along better in this game...I came so close to voting one of the newbies for the sake of it...hmm, perhaps that means you are evil this time (though I didn't actuallly think you were at least by the end of that fateful day for me...but I'll shush, no relevance here).

[Eönwë]

Well.... no-one posted anything and then 2 posts come at once. They don't really say much (or help me choose), so I'll just go for a semi-random vote:

++Gwath

Because his 2 posts said nothing at all relevant.

[the phantom]

The vote-

Kath ++Nerwy
Fea ++Hansy
D'lin ++Sally
Steve ++Gwathy

[the phantom]

I'm leaving soon for an evening activity, but I shall be around after that up until the deadline.

[wilwarin538]

Alright ladies (and gentleman), I'm here, and wow...

I'm going to go ahead and believe Brinniel, since the beginning I've trusted both her and Rikae, but I trusted Brinn more. Aswell, her explanation as the Queen role just seems to make more sense, Rikae's was almost too safe, yes it did follow the rules of real chess (with Queen having the same role as both the Rook and the Bishop), but Shasta hasn't followed chess roles for any other piece, so why would he change it just for the Queen?

Regarding everyone else, I'll believe that Rikae and Izzy could be our last two baddies, and if everyone agrees to vote for one of them, I definitely would as well.

So that would make either phantom or Mnemo our cobbler, I have suspected Mnemo since like Day 1, so I'm thinking it could be him. I have reread phantom's posts about 54 times and I'm still leaning towards thinking him innocent, and I really truely hope I do not regret that.

So I will be around pretty consistently all day. You should find far more participation from me then from the last few days.

[Rikae]

Honestly, Shasta. A good wizard and no evil wizard. We never had a chance.

I'm completely disgusted.

++Rikae

Go ahead and lynch me asap, I want no part in this absurd excuse for a werewolf game.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Honestly, Shasta. A good wizard and no evil wizard. We never had a chance.

I'm completely disgusted.

++Rikae

Go ahead and lynch me asap, I want no part in this absurd excuse for a werewolf game.

Well, there's our cobbler if you ask me, I'm definitely not planning to go along with that vote.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, all three of our unknowns have shown up and believed Brinn. Someone is lying, and it ain't me.

wilwa, Mnemosyne was the mother of the nine muses. I am not a guy.

Let's focus on the people we know are evil first, eh?

[Mnemosyne]

Also, wilwa, if you're right and that self-vote means Rikae's the cobbler (which I by no means believe), then that means phantom's completely innocent.

Which means you, my dear, are our last wolf.

Just putting that out there.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Also, wilwa, if you're right and that self-vote means Rikae's the cobbler (which I by no means believe), then that means phantom's completely innocent.

Which means you, my dear, are our last wolf.

Just putting that out there.

ROFLMAO.

Nice one, Mnemi.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Also, wilwa, if you're right and that self-vote means Rikae's the cobbler (which I by no means believe), then that means phantom's completely innocent.

Which means you, my dear, are our last wolf.

Just putting that out there.

Hey, it makes either you or I the last wolf, and I know which one I am.

But since everyone is more sure of Izzy, I am probably going to vote for her later.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I wouldn't assume anything from Rikae's vote. She's infamous for self-voting, regardless of her role.

If anything my guess would be that phantom is our cobbler, mostly for his interactions with Fea. I know those two can read each other well and I have a hard time believing tp could be so wrong about her. Plus, they seemed to be hinting at each other at the beginning of Day 1. If anything, I hope tp is the cobbler because then it'd mean our known baddies are wolves.

I was thinking last night, if Rikae or Izzy is the cobbler, it'd be better to get the cobbler first. Because then we'd know for sure toMorrow we'd be lynching a wolf. If we lynched the wolf toDay then a cobbler toMorrow, then it's over for us. Unless I'm still alive toMorrow to make my vote power picks for the following Night.

Looking back at the possibilities:

Originally Posted by Mnemo

1). She was the Black Pawn and guessed lucky.

Pros for this argument: holy cow, this wreaks havoc, which is a cobbler's duty!

Cons: She guessed lucky. Seriously?

2). She was the Black Knight and was pushing her mate Izzy under the bus.

Pros: If she pulled off an Izzy-lynch, presumably everyone would trust her and lynch whoever counterrevealed.

Cons: Being down a Wolf with a Bear still in play? Ouch!

3). She was the Black Knight and was pushing the Black Pawn under the bus.

Pros: Well, that's a good use of a cobbler!

Cons: She couldn't have known Izzy was the cobbler, only a known innocent. So we'd have clued onto her pretty quick, and this without us knowing what exactly the WQ could do!

1. If Rikae is the cobbler, then she somehow had to be convinced that Izzy was a White piece of some sort because there's no reason to sacrifice her if she could be evil. Of course, if this was so, then her judgment was very off. Putting Izzy on the lynching block would be a risky move for a cobbler, but then again Rikae likes to take risks and her behaviour is cobblerish (though she also acts cobblerish as a wolf and sometimes even as an ordo).

2. It's really funny, looking back through the Days, I spotted this from Mirandir:

Rikae - Vote analysis of last night, looked at Izzy and found her guilty. Could be a wolf throwing another wolf under the bus to cast suspicion off herself.

Interesting that she spotted that as a possibility from Day 2. It's weird that Rikae would want to sacrifice Izzy in the game, but then again it's Rikae. And the way she sets up her suspicions, it does seem a bit pre-planned. While cobblers have made fake reveals, I've noticed that it tends to be more often that a wolf does it. If Izzy really is the Black Bishop, it would've been a perfect bluff, and they could've gotten away with it.

3. Mnemo makes a good point that the Bishop wouldn't be able to recognise the Black Pawn through a dream. So either Rikae would've made a lucky guess, or Izzy somehow hinted to the wolves that she's the cobbler. Or perhaps Rikae didn't think Izzy was necessarily the cobbler and decided to throw her under the bus regardless of her role. Though quite honestly, Izzy doesn't look very cobblerish to me.

So yeah, I still find Option 2 most likely because it makes the most sense and would be quite typical of Rikae. And I certainly hope I'm right.

EDIT: X-posted with 10+ (apparently I'm really slow)

[Rikae]

Izzy, Phantom, I'm serious - go ahead and follow my vote. With the double-vote power thing there's no way to win. I can't believe Shasta gave Brinn all those powers - it's ridiculous. Didn't I say we should kill her? Bah.

Nice job playing along yesterDay, though. I was so pleased that you caught on to my plan.

[Mnemosyne]

Oho, the traditional "I've been proven evil and now I'm going to mess with your minds a little bit!" segment.

...What, no song and dance routine, Rikae?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Izzy, Phantom, I'm serious - go ahead and follow my vote. With the double-vote power thing there's no way to win. I can't believe Shasta gave Brinn all those powers - it's ridiculous. Didn't I say we should kill her? Bah.

Nice job playing along yesterDay, though. I was so pleased that you caught on to my plan.

Besides, what wolf reveals her other wolf, no matter how much it looks like they'll lose? Which it seems it's what she's doing here. "Didn't I say we should kill her?" , no, I'm having a hard time believing she's an actual wolf.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I just read that as "*throws a wench in the works...*

Oh, could we do that? Please?

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Mira

Hansy really confuses me. Is this his first game? Because he seems to know a lot more about this entire thing than I did my first game (or still do, as a matter of fact).

This is what worries me--we don't know, and however he answers it could be a lie. You're only a n00b once. Someone who joined the 'Downs just to play Werewolf probably knows a good chunk about the game and/or has played it elsewhere, but maybe not, and he's under no obligation to tell us which way it goes.

If he has played WW elsewhere, but wants to appear as n00bish as possible in order to foment confusion, then that points towards baddishness. And oddly enough, that's the impression I'm getting from him...

It's bad form to initiate someone into WW with a Day 1 lynch, but man, I'm tempted.

I should be up till deadline so I'll have plenty of time to go over all suspects.

In the meantime, Hansy, have you played Werewolf elsewhere?

[Hansy]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

This is what worries me--we don't know, and however he answers it could be a lie. You're only a n00b once. Someone who joined the 'Downs just to play Werewolf probably knows a good chunk about the game and/or has played it elsewhere, but maybe not, and he's under no obligation to tell us which way it goes.

If he has played WW elsewhere, but wants to appear as n00bish as possible in order to foment confusion, then that points towards baddishness. And oddly enough, that's the impression I'm getting from him...

It's bad form to initiate someone into WW with a Day 1 lynch, but man, I'm tempted.

I should be up till deadline so I'll have plenty of time to go over all suspects.

In the meantime, Hansy, have you played Werewolf elsewhere?

Yes. (But I want my newbie status nonetheless :P) It is way too different from the way it is played here, though. It relies heavily on roles; I can't remember the last time I played with plain innocents/ordos before this game, for example, and there are second places (answering to Rikae, which I believe I missed before). You play almost like Mafia - and the way everyone's active, and analyse each other's posts to find which people are lying, it's an interesting approach that I wanted to experiment. I was trying to do my part on creating useful discussion - I didn't want to be misinterpeted as the cobbler or wild theorizer or whatever.

(Though at this point, I should be pretending I am the cobbler. It would certainly be more fun but not helpful, yeah.)

[Nerwen]

Sorry for lack of contribution– I couldn't get online before.

Thoughts–

Hansy. Rather creepy. He seems too confused about the rules of the current game to be a wolf (are we calling them wolves?), and probably too flamboyant to be the Black Queen. Might be the Black Pawn... in fact, he reminds me a lot of Lal when she was a cobbler.

Rikae: Tries to cast suspicion on yours truly, which seems awfully opportunistic after I'd just been given the first vote of the Day, and that a completely random one.

Which brings us to–

Kath. AIIIIEE!!!! Now my head may well explode. Would an innocent Kath vote like that? But then, would an evil Kath vote like that? After all, it's been established as one of the best ways of getting oneself lynched on Day One.

And then others follow suit...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. You're not all baddies... I think. But let me bet something that we have at least one baddie here already...

Here's the problem: last game, I think, all the random voters on Day One were innocent. And most were experienced enough to know better, too.

EDIT: X'd since Gwath at #123.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Here's the problem: last game, I think, all the random voters on Day One were innocent. And most were experienced enough to know better, too.

If that is how it was, that clearly is a problem. If there is a meme that says "vote random on Day1 to be on the safe side" which is spreading right now then we could just throw a lot for Day1 and skip the Day alltogether... and face the same problem on Day2, right? Inaction and uninvolvement should be the scariest ways to try and get through Day1's and not the safest... If there was a general mood that a silent-one / random-voter gets automatically killed at the end of Day1 we'd force the baddies from their safety-holes out in the open to talk - and to make mistakes so that we could catch them.

Blaah... I've said this probably a thousand times already...

But maybe this just kicked me enough to make my decision... I need to have a cigarette before it, though.

[Mnemosyne]

Looking through the last game the first three votes were all random. Two of the voters were innocent and one of them was the seer.

With that said, early, random votes do have a really good role in promoting discussion like the one that's currently going on. Nothing to make people sit up, pay attention, and actually engage in some serious talk amidst the banter than a good ole lynch vote! Voting for people just because they voted randomly is going to do nothing but give the baddies something else to hide behind.

That said, we don't have much else to go on...

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Lariren Shadow - Careful, soo careful and general that I would like to say I really suspect her. But I'm not too sure about it. She will be on my list of "to be followed" more closely. If I'd need to make a shot in a dark she'd be one of my top choices though.

I've been careful? Good to know. And is it sad that I feel honored to be on your list?

And to add here is my list:
Mira: Has only said something that made me laugh. Therefore I think she is innocent and should be kept around if just for the entertainment.

Durelin: Not sure if I have anything on her yet. Much is still to be seen.

Fea: Not sure what to make of her seer comment. It could just be her trying to play a role while being a pawn. But then I also have no idea what to make of her. She’s smart and a good player, I’ll give her that. The comment just gets to me. She could really be the seer, but I don't think that's her style.

Isabellkya: Izzy? Bella? Anyway, not much to go on here either. Just a few posts. Nothing much more.

Nerwen: Hasn't said a lot and I can see that's been because of the lack of internet.

Eomer: Has said little. Not sure what that means and I have no idea what his personality was like before his apparent new one. He has been making sense too.

the phantom: Shouldn’t die. He’s smart and really good at analyzing people. He could be a lot of help later in the game.

Brinn: I have no idea. I don't think I'm good at reading her though.

Sally: Again, not really an idea about her at all. Though other’s are suspicious of her. I’m not sure what to make of that. I can’t really get a good read on her.

Gwath: I wish I had more to say about people.

Wilwa: Really truly want something to be able to say.

Rikae: Now that I think about it, the Seer banter with Fea could possibly be two Wolves trying to communicate during the game. I don’t know what that means for us. Or it could be innocents just playing around, which is entirely possible considering.

Eonwe: Nothing.

Nog: Has posted an analysis of the posting pages. From what I understand this points to guilt because it’s easy to find fault where there is none in analysis. And this pointing to guilt is based on previous games where the guilty have done long explinations.

Syne: I like this nickname. Just saying. You can totally not like it. I consider you a newbie so that means I’m not going to vote for you for awhile. I know you’re not “new” but, well, you get a free pass. I do think that you warrent watching though.

Kath: Blah stupid Day 1.

Hansy: Newbie again. See above for reasons. And I played a Werewolf game before my first game here and got newbie status(and came in as Fea’s friend). But then again the game I played was not as active as any of the ones I’ve played here and was such a newbie I’m willing to give him the same status(I still don’t under stand the Hunter role that well).

So the people that I would possibly vote for, but am going to wait a little bit longer to vote on are:
Fea
Nog
or Rikae

The problem with this list is that these players are smart and good at pointing out baddies and are intelligent and would be good towards the end. I'm entirely not sure how I want to vote. I do know this: I think I want to stay away from the bandwagons, those mess me up.

Edit: x-posted with Mnemosyne

[Nogrod]

This is a hard one indeed.

Sally leads with two votes. I would be happy to know what she is as she always scares me but somehow I'm afraid she's the "easy lynch" this time.

Nerwen, Hansy or Gwath I would be very reluctant to aid lynching toDay either.

So maybe it's still time for a new candidate...

Kath? Fea? Dury? Isabell? Eönwë? Lari?

With any statistical probabilities there is at least one baddie in there as well as in any group six in this-sized game...

Originally Posted by Mnemo

Voting for people just because they voted randomly is going to do nothing but give the baddies something else to hide behind.

Random voting is a thing behind which you might try to hide. So is voting for those who vote randomly - and so is also voting along the lines of any stated principle (voting for the silent-ones, voting for the careful ones, voting for the controversial ones to know what they are so as they would not bother you later; not voting newbies, not voting your friends, not voting those you think could contribute a lot...). Everyone can pick the grounds for themselves - but we need to be able to see why they choose what they choose when there are no more pressing reasons to vote someone...

But there are differences. Certain options boost the game and force the baddies to act and others give them free-rides... and some are purely social and have nothing to do with the game itself.

EDIT: X'd with Lari & Isabell

[the phantom]

Quick thoughts...

I like the way Hansy thinks. I realize that means nothing about guilt and innocence, but I am unlikely to cast a random Day 1 vote in the direction of a Noob that shows promise.

Fea feels fine. Rikae too.

Nog is looking as he always does. Right now I would lean innocent for him.

I wish Eomer was around more, as what he has said thus far has been to my liking.

Since I've never seen her play, it is no surprise that I don't have a feel for Mnem. She certainly hasn't done anything to make me wish her dead though. Give her at least another day.

And I would hate to lynch the usually vocal Sally just because she's having temporary difficulties.

And just generally I'd like to hear more from everyone. But that is always the case on Day 1. Things should be more comfortable tomorrow.

[Isabellkya]

I don't have a mind to follow the trend and vote randomly... even though I typically do on first days. But with so many others doing it, it feels too much like bandwagoning in a sense.

There has been a lot of usual-seeming banter in the beginning of the Day, with a bit smattered here and there throughout so far. I say seeming, mostly in regards to those I haven't played with Mira, Lariren, Wilwa and Mnemosyne - so if the banter-esque things so far are typical, then okay. I've no idea.

Rikae brings up a good point/question in regards to the Cobbler. Are they on the side of general evil, or paired to a specific evil "team"?

Hansy and phantom discuss mechanics. With a little bit of rule clarifying/questioning on hansy's part.

All of this proposing on what Day Fea and Phantom should be lynched.. is banter yes, but from so many.. Why not have them pick?

#92 Mnemosyne says "Dwell too much and we either look like baddies ..... or give baddies ideas." In response to my question on what good it would be to spend a bunch of time theorizing about the White Queen.
She makes a good point that we look at both the wolves and the bear; while not at the expense of on, in favor of the other.
#116 Gwath says we ought to focus on neither/both in regards to the wolves and the bear.
- Could you elaborate on this a bit Gwath? I think I know what you are saying, but would rather see the words - than have an imaginary response in my head.

Mira and Mnemosyne wonder about Hansy's playing experience, and whether or not he may be playing up the newbie card.
Gwath comments on random voting.
#126 Mnemosyne comments and wonders about usefulness of Hansy's earlier theories and the veteran Downers contributing.

I have a question Mnemosyne. If dwelling too much on The White Queen would be baddie like behavior, or giving them ideas. Well what is bringing back up a topic from two pages ago? Wouldn't that be in the same realm? Dwelling too much on mechanics of the game, is to a certain extent pointless. However an excellent tool if you are a baddie - since it involves distracting the village. Yet, here you are bringing up a mechanical topic in regards to Hansy. Seems to be a bit contradictory to me.

On that note of Hansy. I'm not yet worried about him, and in terms of general Werewolf, the ideas are not outlandish to me. As I know what he speaks of; though they are probably "out there" in terms of this style of werewolf playing.


Edit. X'd since Nog's #130.

[the phantom]

Updated voting-

Kath ++Ner
Fea ++Hansy
Dury ++Sally
Steve ++Gwath
Eomer ++Sally (2)

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

#116 Gwath says we ought to focus on neither/both in regards to the wolves and the bear.
- Could you elaborate on this a bit Gwath? I think I know what you are saying, but would rather see the words - than have an imaginary response in my head.

Oh, sure. I meant that we should focus equally on both the werebear and the werewolves.