Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

One reason I can say why Rikae is obviously lying is because if Kath didn't dream of Sally, who could she have possibly dreamt of? Kath wouldn't leave us clues for the first two Days, then none for Day 3; she's not that type of seer. Her sudden turnaround towards Sally's innocence clearly indicates that she dreamt of her. Kath never mentioned anyone else's innocence on Day 3 and if she dreamt of a baddie, she would've voted for them.

You're missing the point where Rikae's reveal doesn't actually have to conflict with Sally's innocence. She does not claim to have dreamt Sally. Sally claims she is a second hunter, and even seems to believe Rikae. The problem lies in there being a second hunter!

[Brinniel]

Yes, she didn't dream of Sally. So why vote her instead of Izzy when Kath's dreams point towards Sally's innocence?

[Durelin]

Brinn and Fea have both been very hung up on the seer dreams as 'proof' against Rikae. If Rikae's telling the truth, I wonder about them a bit. I mean I'm a skeptic as well, we should be, but both Rikae and Sally's claims fit fine with the seer dreams.

Except that Sally claims to be a second hunter. Grahhhh??

Anyone else like to reveal?

I call Evil Wizard!

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Dury, you are being picky. Actually, my dreams of pawns came back "White Pawn", so that makes me trust Sally more.

Well, sorry, how am I to know?

But that is interesting.

See? I did good.

Or just I'm the only one who thought Shasta would use a more neutral term. But then, that the cobbler just shows up as 'innocent' can mean they just show up as 'white pawn'...

[Durelin]

So. Why are we not voting for a known wolf?

What do ye mean here:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway, it may not be a bad idea to lynch one of those four after all. You know where I stand on Izzy, tp and Wilwa; we know what Sally claims to be. The night's events may shed some light on things, and give us a chance, if we have two gifteds, to keep both.

You mean, have both of you survive the night...?

Originally Posted by Izzy

If you were dreamed of by Kath as you claim Sally; and as a white pawn. Then, I think that would mean you would not be able to be in contact with her. As it states the Bishop may contact one whom she has dreamed of - if they are a Gifted. But since you claim the result was a White Pawn; how exactly is that a Gifted?

Regardless of Izzy's identity, I would like to hear about that, too!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Durelin

You mean, have both of you survive the night...?

I guess the only way that could happen is if Izzy was protected last Night, and so can't be toNight. Could be, though. I don't think they'd sacrifice Izzy and take a chance on us lynching the last wolf toMorrow if they don't have to.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Izzy

If you were dreamed of by Kath as you claim Sally; and as a white pawn. Then, I think that would mean you would not be able to be in contact with her. As it states the Bishop may contact one whom she has dreamed of - if they are a Gifted. But since you claim the result was a White Pawn; how exactly is that a Gifted?

I believe Sally already answered this:

Originally Posted by Sally

Then I was switched at the end of Night Three so we weren't able to communicate until last Night. Hope that clears things up a bit.

She's saying that she was turned after Kath dreamt of her, which is why she appeared as a white pawn and they couldn't communicate.

[Isabellkya]

To Brinn. Which it doesn't add up.
Kath wouldn't of known her to be a Gifted. So she wouldn't of been able to communicate with her. The only way that could've happened - is if Kath dreamed of her again.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I guess the only way that could happen is if Izzy was protected last Night, and so can't be toNight. Could be, though. I don't think they'd sacrifice Izzy and take a chance on us lynching the last wolf toMorrow if they don't have to.

So why not lynch Izzy toDay? Unless she can be protected from lynch again...then how do we kill a darned wolf??

Originally Posted by Brinn

She's saying that she was turned after Kath dreamt of her, which is why she appeared as a white pawn and they couldn't communicate.

It does seem weird that she would bother saying Kath dreamt her as a white pawn on night 3 and then was changed to a hunter at the end of it. But none of it makes any sense. Pieces only get upgraded in checkers, right?

Edit: Crossed. Izzy has a good point. And even if she is a wolf, she'd have no love for the BQ.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Or just I'm the only one who thought Shasta would use a more neutral term. But then, that the cobbler just shows up as 'innocent' can mean they just show up as 'white pawn'...

Perhaps you got hung up about the exact wording that Shasta uses when telling Seers their dreams because you are the Black Seer and Rikae's comments were inconsistent with the way you've been receiving news all game?

Just a hypothesis, of course. *glares*

I know I'm being stubborn. I do. I'm being the dog-with-a-bone I accused Nog of being earlier in the game. I just learned my lesson already about not following through on my intuition. If you turn out to be a wolf and I don't try to get you killed, Durelin, then the wolves deserve a sweeping victory.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

She's saying that she was turned after Kath dreamt of her, which is why she appeared as a white pawn and they couldn't communicate.

This would make sense, except it's killing me to admit that there might be another White Hunter. I mean... why the eff would there be?

It really doesn't seem fair to just create roles willy nilly once players have been fairly killed on either side of the board. It would be like if Shasta was sitting around going, "Well, I really wanted the wolf team to win, so even though the village just killed the last one, I think I'll deputize this player."

I don't like it.

I mean... I'd be all for believing in the honesty of Good players if I wasn't so unsure of Sally. It just... seems like such a cobbler thing to do. And what cobbler wouldn't want to go down in history as the one who convinced an entire village, including the gifted good guys, that xe had a good role that didn't exist?

I just... I'm hesitant, is all. Especially when I'm so convinced of Durelin's guilt, but nobody else seems to hear me when I talk about it.

You can't all be wolves, so what's with this ignore Fea routine?

I mean... I know that it all hinges on the wolves thinking the same things about Kath that I suspected, but Durelin's careful reference to solely the two players that we're all pretty settled on as being dreamed of?

It seems way to good to be true.

And yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I don't also think Izzy's a good lynch choice, because you'll notice that I've been trying to lynch her for a while now, but I'm so much more convinced of Durelin.

I want to believe Rikae, so if she tells me flat out that I must vote Izzy toDay, I'm not going to butt heads with her: we'll find out fast if she was lying, if Izzy turns out to be a good guy.

Originally Posted by Izzy

The only way that could've happened - is if Kath dreamed of her again.

Or if the dreamed-of status sticks and the dreamers get updates as roles shift. I don't know if this is true, because as I've made abundantly clear, I have absolutely no clue what's going on, apart from a bunch of people saying things that seem too good to be true...

Originally Posted by Sally

Basically I don't know how it works. I got a PM at Day Four's dawn and was told I was the new white rook. I got a PM from Kath the next Night saying that she'd dreamt me the Night before and she was able to PM me now.

In a really twisted way, this makes so much sense.

I'm baffled.

[Mnemosyne]

On the contrary, Fea. Statistically (from my pov, and I'm assuming myself innocent), if Rikae is telling the truth, there's a 75% chance that Duri is either the Queen, the Bishop, or the Knight. Unfortunately the same applies to you, dear.

[Isabellkya]

That explanation doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the rules and information as stated on the Admin thread. I don't see why a Seer would be updated on the status/alignment of their dream target.

I think it is a bunch of hogwash.

Though, I think a line taken from Sam would fit much better in here.


X'd with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

That explanation doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the rules and information as stated on the Admin thread. I don't see why a Seer would be updated on the status/alignment of their dream target.

I think it is a bunch of hogwash.

Though, I think a line taken from Sam would fit much better in here.

According to Shasta, that's not what happened.

Keep in mind that what I'd said before was my best guess.

Kath received the PM regarding me being the Rook at Day 4 Dawn, so she didn't have a chance to PM me until the next Night.

Thus saith Shasta. That's all I know though, sorry.

[satansaloser2005]

I think Durie more evil though, little Mnemo.

I think I'll go ahead and rank the unknowns, most guilty to least.

Durie
Mnemo
Brinn
Fea


Definitely subject to change, but that's kind of what I'm feeling now.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Fea

I mean... I know that it all hinges on the wolves thinking the same things about Kath that I suspected, but Durelin's careful reference to solely the two players that we're all pretty settled on as being dreamed of?

This hinges on a lot more than just the wolves thinking exactly like you do (hmm, interesting though... ). For one thing it hinges on me deciding only at the beginning of that Day and not before that Kath was the seer and she dreamed of phantom and Sally. Because otherwise then she'd have been dead a night earlier. Which is a bit much to assume, as well.

And why try and get them lynched if I'm a wolf/werecreature when they can be killed more easily at night?

Stop playing Cicero. There's no big conspiracy based around the seer dreams. The death and destruction that would result from said conspiracy isn't there - namely that Kath was not killed till last night and phantom and Sally are both still alive. I am not that inept in that regard. Though mabye Catiline really was, who knows.

Maybe I should take it as a compliment that you don't think I can just be wrong?

[Rikae]

Fea → Dury
Wilwa → Mnemi
Rikae → Sally


Still to vote: Phantom, Izzy, Mnemi, Fea, Brinn, Dury


I think we need some kind of consensus here. Otherwise, it's too easy for Izzy and the cobbler to snipe someone at DL.


Fea, I have no objection you voting for Durelin. I could possibly switch to her myself. *points to post about “if Sally is good, there's a wolf and a bear among her, you, Mnemi and Brinn”* She's not my top suspect out of those, though. My list, from most to least suspicious, is more like:


Brinn
Fea
Durelin
Mnemi

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Fea → Dury
Wilwa → Mnemi
Rikae → Sally


Still to vote: Phantom, Izzy, Mnemi, Fea, Brinn, Dury


I think we need some kind of consensus here. Otherwise, it's too easy for Izzy and the cobbler to snipe someone at DL.


Fea, I have no objection you voting for Durelin. I could possibly switch to her myself. points to post about “if Sally is good, there's a wolf and a bear among her, you, Mnemi and Brinn” She's not my top suspect out of those, though. My list, from most to least suspicious, is more like:


Brinn
Fea
Durelin
Mnemi

Well, if my opinion matters at all I'm totally up for a Durie lynch.