WWLVIII: Escape From Angband (or Behavioral Modification)

[Nogrod]

Haha. Here we go again!

Originally Posted by Shasta

Also, I'm getting a strange vibe from Nogrod. Why are you so insistent that Rikae lied about having a posting requirement? You yourself said you didn't have one.

No I didn't. Read the thread. I said I had a different obligation to fulfill than "be loud", "be silent", "make lists", "do not banter"...

Interestingly enough Dury comes to speculate on that very issue immediately, even lending the part of my post you should have read Shasta.

Originally Posted by Dury

Which is perhaps precisely what Rikae meant herself.

Now this is interesting in itself as well. I know people may talk on behalf of others but this looks a bit fishy, like a rush to defend someone indeed. Somehow the wording of it makes me suspect it even more; perhaps precisely? Now if you just shoot in the dark not knowing what's going on you don't use a word like "precisely" for someone else's intentions...

Also Dury says:

Originally Posted by Dury

That particular comment was responding to his posting style in general. The rest was about his comment on my damning 'possibility'. That was not at all clear, I know, I know.

You have really fine antennas to respond to someone's posting style when that person had only done one short post to comment on in the first place. And from that one post you were able to say that I'm trying too hard and am bad... But you said there also that I am my normal self (Nogrod is just Nogrod) and we all know that was a bit different post from me if you compare it with these latter ones I've done after it (I was in a hurry and was only able to make the one point back then). So it wasn't too earnest, was it?

Originally Posted by Mac

Nog, what you quote from the admin thread pretty clearly says "roles and/or requirement".

I indeed saw it as I was copy-pasting it this time - and had to think for a moment whether I was mistaken and should just pull back all I had said on the issue. But if you look at that quote more closely you should see that Sally clearly meant there was to be requirements for all to do things they wouldn't usually do (I bolded a host of parts from that quote to make that interpretation clearer). Look and see for yourselves.

I think this - added to the other things in her post - is the most important one:

Originally Posted by Sally

will require you all to think outside the box in terms of how you normally approach Werewolf

Okay. Why do I always have to be a goodie in a game that has dozens of cobblers in it?

Gah, too many things going on... Back soon with further thoughts - after a cigarette to cool my brain.

[Mithalwen]

I may have to break the be nice to newbies convention and vote Nienna. Despite her fondness for my Uncle Bill she is quite the most irritating Vala I have encountered in a WW game.

consider me officially off my trolley. Alternatively I could beg you all to lynch me and free me from this madness to rejoin the greyness, but that would be selfish.. I must meet my doom ....

I need to go soon and won't be back pre deadline.

I won't be voting for Dury, Lommie, or Mac because they are not making referencees to things I don't understand. I have never seen the Princess Bride. or whatever ...

Nilp is also exempt for being his delightful self (biased Mummie).

Rikae is interesting.

I am quite enjoying the Shasta / Nerwen double act but that just meand they are amusing. They could be feathered.

[Rikae]

Nogrod always goes after me, and for strange reasons like that. Always. Every single game. This time, though, I think there may be more behind it than the usual habit - because of the way he does the same for several people at once. He seems a bit desperate to control the suspicions in this game.

Well, anyway -

I want to spend the evening with Bubbles, and, later, some work I've been putting off, so I'm going to call it a night. Lynch me if you like, I don't mind, but please don't go accusing me of being unsporting. '

++Nogrod

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You have really fine antennas to respond to someone's posting style when that person had only done one short post to comment on in the first place.

Well, with Fea not talking and Nerwen being a fangirl/cheerleader and Brinniel just posting one-liners, I was wondering if we'd see something quite interesting out of you, and was rather looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And from that one post you were able to say that I'm trying too hard and am bad...

Eh, the bad part was a hunch. Or maybe just a guess. Had to put you on the list somewhere.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But you said there also that I am my normal self (Nogrod is just Nogrod)

Yes. Trying very hard to get people to take the game more seriously.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

and we all know that was a bit different post from me if you compare it with these latter ones I've done after it (I was in a hurry and was only able to make the one point back then). So it wasn't too earnest, was it?

Yes, you are posting differently now. You're still trying too hard, but in a different way.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this is interesting in itself as well. I know people may talk on behalf of others but this looks a bit fishy, like a rush to defend someone indeed. Somehow the wording of it makes me suspect it even more; perhaps precisely? Now if you just shoot in the dark not knowing what's going on you don't use a word like "precisely" for someone else's intentions...

Yes, trying too hard is now a fair accusation.

(Edit: Crossed with Mith and Rikae...ooh, our first vote!)

[Macalaure]

There are some people for who I could justify a vote for, but I don't feel extremely comfortable with either. I think I'll vote for someone who only bantered so far. It's Nienna's first game and Miri told us she will post something worthwhile later, so they're off the hook. Unless I'm forgetting someone, this leaves Brinn and Gwath. My gut says...

++Gwathagor


Other comments:

I'm a bit worried about how easily Mith took over Nogrod's "lie" thing about Rikae.

Sally's requirement for Lommy was to go insane.
Was Legate's requirement to complain all the time?

Originally Posted by Durelin

Perhaps specifically against Rikae for a reason?

You mean "Lynch Rikae or 24 players of your choice"?

Originally Posted by Durelin

Nogrod and Mac seem like they're trying to do some poking at people.

Only Day1 tactic that makes moderate sense, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I indeed saw it as I was copy-pasting it this time - and had to think for a moment whether I was mistaken and should just pull back all I had said on the issue. But if you look at that quote more closely you should see that Sally clearly meant there was to be requirements for all to do things they wouldn't usually do (I bolded a host of parts from that quote to make that interpretation clearer). Look and see for yourselves.

You mean Sally was inconsistent? Shocker!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm a bit worried about how easily Mith took over Nogrod's "lie" thing about Rikae.

Why are you worried that I pointed out that her lying (if she lied which seems moot) wasn't necessarily an indication of werebeastiality?

That does seem odd...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Bah. Nogrod, I'm sorry. I just went back and looked at your post.

That aside, I still don't think that whether or not someone has a posting requirement is indicative of evilness. As I've already said, I don't have one; neither, apparently, does Rikae. So you're wrong in stating that everyone has one. Everyone should have one? Possibly, but that's an argument you'll have to take up with our dear Modduck.

[Nogrod]

First of all. Compare this page with the three (four) first ones.

And this time those posting on the first four can not say they made this discussion possible as they didn't (except a few individual posts that stood out from there miles away).

And just as this is getting interesting some people wish to start talking about preferable ways of dying... distracting a process of inquiry, suspicion, answers, forced bluffs - what this game is all about!

And what is this then?

Originally Posted by Rikae on me

He seems a bit desperate to control the suspicions in this game.

Hah. Show me someone else who has suspected anyone with any grounds so far (not including the reactions how some have started suspecting me because of what I have said - and which Shasta's promise and your vote just underline)! One doesn't need to try and control something one is the only one doing...

So it looks like I started my post on a relevant topic then. Go back to the game of the first four pages if you wish. Your choice.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

First of all. Compare this page with the three (four) first ones.
And this time those posting on the first four can not say they made this discussion possible as they didn't (except a few individual posts that stood out from there miles away).

Actually, I think they did provoke discussion. At least i started suspecting them and still do.

My problem with this game is that I really can't concentrate on people because it's all so messy.

[Isabellkya]

Sally did say the game would mess with our minds. As well that it would "require you all to think outside the box in terms of how you normally approach Werewolf."

So I think if you are going to be a stickler for parts of what was posted by the Moddess on the Admin thread- then you should do it for all.

We all might as well throw what we consider to be normal and expectant out the window right now and be done with it. Looking at everything through fresh and new eyes - rather than those of comparing and past performances.


X'd with Mith, Shasta and Nog.

[Mithalwen]

If we have to be different ..I suppose that means NOT lynching Gwathagor day one, me not voting Nogrod for the hell of it.. *sigh*

[satansaloser2005]

Everyone has EITHER a role OR some kind of posting requirement. Most have both, but not everyone does. Some people's role dictates how they behave, while others have....well, let's just say cracked out instructions. The point of the game was that no one was just a standard role or an ordo who could float through the game.


And please stop telling people if you don't have a posting requirement/that you do and what it is. Posting requirements (such as volume level or other crap) have nothing to do with a person's role and are just to make the game more random. The fact that someone does or does not have a posting requirement has no bearing on their alignment.


That is all. Well, not quite, but I must pop out for a second, so that's all for now.

[Kath]

Ooh and there we have the first real misunderstanding of the game! It does seem to be due to the language barrier again I think - there wouldn't have been half such a strong reaction if Nogrod hadn't used the word 'lie'. Lets just watch that a little.

Now I have to vote soon because I need to get to bed. I'm going to have a wander through the thread, see if I can think of anything.

My only comment right now is that I'm a little worried about a Day 1 vote for Gwath. I know his playing style is irritating but how many times has he been lynched early recently - if we're giving newbies a bit of leeway I think we should do the same for him.

I'm thinking something similar about Nog actually. This time especially it seems suspicion against him is based around that unfortunate comment.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Everyone has EITHER a role OR some kind of posting requirement. Most have both, but not everyone does. Some people's role dictates how they behave, while others have....well, let's just say cracked out instructions. The point of the game was that no one was just a standard role or an ordo who could float through the game.

Okay. Thanks.

Oh my. These situations suck always. Whether to speak openly or to tactically try to shut up and hope the baddies don't connect the dots?

What Sally just said cleared a few things but her announcement also gave us some clear guidelines to what some people are not and I do not believe all the Ducks here are that stupid they shouldn't read the following from her words. Also in this game I think one needs to talk as the conventional tactics might be so wrong anyway. And I'm a bit tired with all this nonsense anyway.

So let's talk this out.

If everyone has something (role and/or a requirement) so as not to make any plain ordos in this game it means that:

- most people have both a role and a requirement to do something
- those that have no role must have a requirement of sorts
- there are people with only a role but not a requirement

Rikae's reactions I can now find the most curious. She probably has a role and - as someone intelligent as she is and if being gifted - she would not have reacted that way. I thought already before Sally's revelation that her vote for me was a wolvish reaction/retaliation (especially as she is able to come back later and talk herself out of it if necessary whereas I need to go to sleep for toDay in an instant - so the unnecessarily early vote was very convenient indeed - and the way she had to add the framing of the "age-old feud" between us which I think is more than a bit overexaggerating it), but this kind of makes me more positive of it.

The ranger(s) should now think carefully as Sally's reveal might bear consequences.

[Thinlómien]

Alright, a list

Innocent
Thinlómien - innocent as a vegetable
Feanor of the Peredhil - seems like an ordo with painful requirements
Shastanis Althreduin - the same
Durelin - ordo with nice posting requirements
Nogrod - almost only one making sense this far
Lari - looks innocent despite all banter

Ok
wilwarin538 and Isabellkya - weirdly enough, I keep mixing them up in this game, and don't have much to say for or against
Nerwen - can't read her, could be an ordo with fangurl requirement or a wolf hiding behind a fangurl pretense
Rikae and Mac - both don't bother and do bother me at the same time
Nienna - gets the newbie free pass for today
Mithalwen - no idea
Gwathagor - under the radar
Legate of Amon Lanc - is weirdly silent but otherwise ok

Suspicious
Brinniel - should have the sense not get stuck on bantering
Mirandir - too chatty (I doubt sally would have made someone just allowed to chat, ergo Mira = cobbler or wolf)
Kath - has a sly manner, just, can't phrase it any better
Nilpaurion Felagund - looks like a wolf that is trying to hide

edit: xed

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Actually, I think they did provoke discussion. At least i started suspecting them and still do.

So can you pinpoint someone from there? So you suspect all the four-five? Whom would you choose from there?

They provoked discussion in a sense that lots of people said that was waay overboard and toilsome to read - but did it give something to pick up upon on someone in special?

I don't think it did. So was it of any good for the game? No. Was it something that helped us to go after a baddie? No. Was there something they said that someone could pick from there and start making a case? No.

All the reasonable discussion eg. "playing this game" has come afterwards and could have been done without those four first pages (not including the few posts I already mentioned erarlier).

How much I may suspect some people I might be tempted to vote for someone only talking nonsense toDay. And especially in this kind of a game which is already crazy enough without us making it even more unfathomable by just talking nonsense!

Originally Posted by Shasta

I still don't think that whether or not someone has a posting requirement is indicative of evilness.

Neither do I. If everyone, good and bad alike (and all in between if htere be such persons) have requirement then of course having a requirement on you is not a mark of evil... And I know it also from my personal experience: I have posting requirement and am an ordo. Where did you get that idea from?

Originally Posted by Shasta

As I've already said, I don't have one; neither, apparently, does Rikae. So you're wrong in stating that everyone has one. Everyone should have one? Possibly, but that's an argument you'll have to take up with our dear Modduck.

Now whether you are a wereduck who tries to help his mate or a cobbler seeing a chance of helping a duck by that (untrue) statement - or whether Sally has made a mistake, or I have misinterpreted the basic idea of this game wrong... well these are all possibilities.

Re-reading the rules makes me still stick to my interpretation of them - that everyone, all, had to do something different this time eg. not play only as they themselves would play but to be required to do something else as well. Why else would there be all those countless reminders of how she would wish to meddle with all of us and how everyone would have to step out from their normal approach to the werewolf if some people just were plain ordos?

I just don't believe it.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Me

Show me someone else who has suspected anyone with any grounds so far

Okay. Toning that down a little bit I am. There have been some individual suspicions thrown around, although I think not any consistent cases or actual scenarios or ones that would actually be reasonable grounds for a case and a vote.

Sorry, I got frustrated with all this nonsense going about and all around - and as I need to go to sleep soon enough Rikae's vote (and Shasta's speculation about his vote) just made me over-state the things from pure frustration.