Castles and Fortifications in Middle-earth

[Aiwendil]

William Cloud Hicklin wrote:

There is IIRC a Tolkien illustration of Gondolin- a circular walled city atop a flattened hill, rather like Carcasonne but more geometric, and with a very tall central watchtower, presumably that of Turgon's palace.

I had forgotten about that drawing by Tolkien. One interesting thing about it is that, though it's hard to tell from such a distance, it appears that apart from its position atop Amon Gwared, the only thing defending the city is a single encircling wall - no barbicans or outworks or even, as far as I can discern, embattled mural towers. But then, of course, the strength of Gondolin always lay more in its geographical location than anything else. We also know that the passage into the valley was guarded by no fewer than seven gates, per 'Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin'.

Tolkien liked his tall central towers

And indeed, he seems to use the Sindarin words 'Barad' and 'Minras', both of which he glosses as 'tower', as generic words for any fortress.

Legate of Amon Lanc wrote:

Well, it's said that Orthanc seemed like made of one piece of stone (or perhaps carven out of one piece of stone?), and I actually think it as well may have been just of one piece of stone. So really, no blocks, no joints, just one piece of stone. But I guess that would leave it out of the line of usual fortress-building.

True, but if the people of Gondor indeed had the skill to carve a tower out of a single massive block of stone, this probably has implications for other buildings in Middle-earth. Might, for example, the walls of Minas Tirith or even of the Hornburg have been solid stone as well?

William Cloud Hicklin wrote:

Although a total of seven is pretty extravagant, it was fairly standard NOT to put gates in a line, which would give an attacker a straight shot through them; generally some setup was designed so that if the enemy breached the first gate, they would have to move sideways between (manned) walls to get to the second.

Indeed, the whole city of Minas Tirith seems in a way like a massive concentric castle, designed to subject an attacker to as much fire from the walls as possible on the way inward toward the central keep. It's also built on a steep incline, so archers on, for example, the second wall would probably have a clear line of sight to attackers outside the first (and so on). I don't know if the walls were close enough together, though, that defenders on the second wall could fire over the first wall at enemies outside the gate.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

One also wonders if the tunnels where the circles of Minas Tirith passed through the 'keel' were barred by gates and/or potcullises, and whether galleries with loopholes and murder-holes were installed.

I know I would have

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Whatever stone was used for the outer wall, and Orthanc, it wouldn't have been marble, which is a rather soft stone, and which vegetation can tear up pretty easily (as can be seen in any old graveyard). For Orthanc basalt is a a candidate, being hard, dense, black and capable of a high polish; the uneroded basalt "necks" of old volcanoes provide the crags on which many fortified places in southern France were built. But a comparable white stone?

Of course, one can't push Middle-earth MagiTech(tm) too hard. Seriously- try to find a metal as ductile as copper but simultaneously harder (and lighter) than steel........

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

True, but if the people of Gondor indeed had the skill to carve a tower out of a single massive block of stone, this probably has implications for other buildings in Middle-earth. Might, for example, the walls of Minas Tirith or even of the Hornburg have been solid stone as well?

Well, but first, I think, there is a difference between "people of Gondor" and Númenoreans, who were the ones who built Orthanc, I think. If it was them, even. Orthanc is a bit of mysterious piece of rock, I think. But whichever is possible, it really may be that it was made the way Rumil said.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Hmmm- one could I suppose postulate that the Ring of Isengard was an ancient volcanic caldera, and Orthanc itself the basaltic neck of the long-gone cone... of course, calderas generally only form when the whole damn thing explodes....

[Rumil]

Hello all,

yes not quite decided whether the description of Orthanc as being carved out of a single piece is metaphor, simile or straight-up!

Interesting to hear that marble is too friable, like the idea of basalt, though some sort of white 'basalt-il' for Minas Tirith perhaps, though perhaps the clue is that it was made out of the White Mountains. Was thinking of some sort of concrete sort of thing, but reinforced ferro-concrete is not very Middle Earth really.

Interesting thought about extinct caldera, could explain the Ring of Isengard? Alternatively perhaps a meteorite crater? So Orthanc = iridium steel ??? OK getting silly now, perhaps more 'in-book' - a shard of one of the two lamps?

Anyway there seem to have been similarities in construction of the Deeping Wall, Orthanc, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Towers of the Teeth and Cirith Ungol, all made by the Numenoreans in their days of power.

More prosaically the Rohirrim had old forts on the far bank of the Isen, but these seem to have been simple ditch-and-bank constructions, with probably a pallisade on top, now overgrown and decayed.

There seems to have been some really long wall (like Hadrian's?) around Arthedain, the hobbits cross it after they leave Tom on their way to Bree. Also the chain of forts and watchtowers on the Weather Hills, perhaps adding up to some 'Roman limes'-type system? Probably these would be ordinary stone and mortar, being built long after the decay of Numenorean craft/tech.

Noticed a few instances of hedges being used for defence, the High Hay, Bree and Caras Galadhon.

[Aiwendil]

Some interesting speculations about Orthanc. I could imagine what we call a volcanic caldera being, in Middle-earth’s terms, the site of a battle between Melkor and the Valar (in their early wars), or something like that.

But Rumil is right that the works of the Numenorean exiles in their days of glory exhibit some similarities in construction. Even if Minas Anor, Minas Ithil, the Hornburg, the Deeping Wall, etc., were not all literally carved out of solid rock, the appearance of being so may have been an aesthetic goal – one that was accomplished by actually carving the living stone when possible and, when not, by using their skill to fashion the walls very accurately and hide the joints between stones.

In this connection it’s possibly worth mentioning that Tolkien may have been influenced by the Anglo-Saxon phrase ‘enta ge-weorc’, ‘work of giants [ents]’, which seems to have been used to describe ancient Roman buildings that they viewed, to some extent, with awe. Tolkien similarly describes both the Hornburg and Minas Tirith:

There upon its spur stood high walls of ancient stone, and within them was a lofty tower. Men said that in the far-off days of the glory of Gondor the sea-kings had built here this fastness with the hands of giants. The Hornburg it was called . . .

And upon its out-thrust knee was the Guarded City, with its seven walls of stone so strong and old that it seemed to have been not builded but carven by giants out of the bones of the earth.

And Tom Shippey makes an interesting argument for the origin of Orthanc lying in this phrase from the Cotton Gnomes:

orþanc enta ge-weorc

This is usually translated as ‘cunning work of giants’, but Tolkien may have preferred to read ‘orthanc’ as a name rather than an adjective: ‘Orthanc, work of giants’ or even ‘Orthanc, fortress of giants’ (‘ge-weorc’ can generically mean ‘work, building’ but very often means specifically ‘fortress’).

William Cloud Hicklin wrote:

One also wonders if the tunnels where the circles of Minas Tirith passed through the 'keel' were barred by gates and/or potcullises, and whether galleries with loopholes and murder-holes were installed.

This is an interesting question, because as far as I can recall there are no references to arrow-slits or murder-holes in any of the fortifications described – but they’re such a prevalent feature of castles in the real world that I would expect they must have existed in Middle-earth.

Rumil wrote:

There seems to have been some really long wall (like Hadrian's?) around Arthedain, the hobbits cross it after they leave Tom on their way to Bree. Also the chain of forts and watchtowers on the Weather Hills, perhaps adding up to some 'Roman limes'-type system? Probably these would be ordinary stone and mortar, being built long after the decay of Numenorean craft/tech.

I had quite forgotten about that wall. Indeed, it seems to have been part of a whole system of defences on Arthedain’s border. Presumably, like Hadrian’s wall, it was of more use in preventing disorganized bands of raiders from crossing the border than in actually holding back an enemy army. It seems likely, then, to have been built relatively late, when Arnor had begun to become a more lawless and less civilized place.

[Rumil]

Hello again,

Aiwendil, I like your Anglo-Saxon links, exactly as Gan-buri-Ghan says...

Many paths were made when Stonehouse-folk were stronger. They carved hills as hunters carve beast-flesh. Wild Men think they ate stone for food. They went through Druadan to Rimmon with great wains. They go no longer.

and the name of Stonewain Valley itself might be suggestive of transporting the building materials?

Reminds me of the 'Giants' Dance' ie Stonehenge, which, together with places like Petra, show that it is at least possible to carve buildings out of the living rock, as it were.

On Minas Tirith fortifications, agree that murder-holes etc are likely, but also the men of Gondor used engines, probably like scorpio or ballistae spear- or stone-throwing catapults, but these were outranged by the Artillery of Morgul.