Boromir and his search for Rivendell

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Gordis:

Despite the fact that Isildur himself had dwelt in Rivendell for a time with his sons while the army of the Last Alliance had been gathered there, it looks like neither of them left notes about its exact location. I wouldn't be surprised if all the Men swore to Elrond not to disclose its location afterwards. Secrecy was the main defense of the place, after all.

Yeah. It would be the equivalent of a modern Macedonian trying to find a Tibetan temple that may or may not even exist, based on information that Alexander the Great may or may not have even transcribed.

[Rumil]

If I remember Boromir turned up apparently 'out of the blue' at the right time at Rivendell. Probably an argument for Eru's noodly appendage playing a part. .

However I've wondered if Elrond generally sent some sort of 'confuslement field' type vibe (magic whatever) to keep Rivendell hidden from undesirables, but could switch it to an 'attraction field' when there was a visitor who was welcome. Speculation I know but Saruman ceratinly sent some 'force' that hindered the three hunters and someone commented on how difficult Rivendell was to find (perhaps Gandalf in The Hobbit?)

[Kuruharan]

We have a splendid example of that in Melian and Doriath.

At least as far as deterrance...and she couldn't keep Beren out, but it seems similar.

[Gordis]

I wonder, what road did Boromir take after he lost his horse at Tharbad crossing?

Did he come up Mitheithel to the Last Bridge? Or did he pass through Bree? In either case he seems to have closely followed the Ring-party for the last leg of the journey Last Bridge-Rivendell. He was lucky not to meet any nazgul...

[Mithadan]

'How far is Rivendell' asked Merrry... 'I don't know that the Road has ever been measured in miles beyond the Foresaken Inn, a day's journey east of Bree,' answered Strider. 'Some say it is far, and some say otherwise. It is a strange road, and folk are glad to reach their journey's end, whether the time is long or short. But I know how long it would take me on my own feet, with fair weather and no ill fortune, twelve days from here to the Ford of Bruinen..."

A Knife in the Dark.

This is Aragorn speaking on Weathertop; Aragorn the Ranger who knew the country well and lived in Rivendell itself for much of his childhood. And what happens thereafter? After the confrontation at Weathertop, Aragorn leads the hobbits through a backcountry route, avoiding the road and, if not actually getting lost, goes astray ('We have come too far to the north... and we must find some way to turn back southwards again."). Clearly, Rivendell is hidden and difficult to find. There is an implication of some form of concealment through the power of Elrond perhaps in a manner similar to, if not as obvious and overt as, Melian's Girdle. Those who do not know where Imladris lies find it difficult to find it, and even those who have been there may encounter trouble.

To the extent that Elendil or any of his northern army visited Rivendell, many, including Elendil himself, died in the Siege of Mordor and those that survived perished in the disaster at Gladden Fields. It cannot be said that after the War any certain information regarding Rivendell's location would have been communicated to Gondor. As others have mentioned above, the fact that the road north was maintained long before the events in LoTR also does not guarantee that any such information survived the passage of time and it may simply be that no certain data on Rivendell's location ever existed in Gondor. Even it were roughly shown on a map, the difficulties in finding Rivendell that Aragorn refers to still would have delayed Boromir.

Aragorn's discussion of how the road to Rivendell is "strange" is reminiscent of Tolkien's descriptions of the Smith's journeys in Faerie in The Smith of Wootten Major. There the Smith's journeys seem longer or shorter even when he is travelling to the same place (assuming he can find it). When a mortal Man journeys to the Elves, particularly in the later Ages, perhaps he is going to a realm different from the mortal world in ways subtle and less subtle. This may be, in part, why Rivendell was hard to find.

[Bêthberry]

Shangri La, from Lost Horizons

[The Mouth of Sauron]

In the days of the last Kings of Gondor before Aragorn, namely Earnil and Earnur, Gondor sent forces to Cirdan's Havens to fight the Witch King. During that war, Glorfindel actually told the Gondor heir that the Witch King wouldn't be killed by "the hand of man".

Surely during that exchange or in subsequent conversations the location of Rivendell, Glorfindel's home at that time, would have been mentioned ? And these events were only a thousand years or so before the War of the Ring.

And even during Ecthelion's final years as Steward of Gondor Thorongil might have mentioned Elrond and Rivendell to him ?

Gondor's ignorance of Rivendell's location doesn't add up.

[Mithadan]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

And these events were only a thousand years or so before the War of the Ring.

"Only?" Let's see, only about a thousand years ago there was this king named Arthur, and Camelot is where?

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

In the days of the last Kings of Gondor before Aragorn, namely Earnil and Earnur, Gondor sent forces to Cirdan's Havens to fight the Witch King. During that war, Glorfindel actually told the Gondor heir that the Witch King wouldn't be killed by "the hand of man".

Surely during that exchange or in subsequent conversations the location of Rivendell, Glorfindel's home at that time, would have been mentioned ? And these events were only a thousand years or so before the War of the Ring.

And even during Ecthelion's final years as Steward of Gondor Thorongil might have mentioned Elrond and Rivendell to him ?

Gondor's ignorance of Rivendell's location doesn't add up.

I doubt that Aragorn would have revealed the location of Rivendell, given that he himself was present in disguise. Otherwise, 1,000 years before in the time of Earnur is a long ways back. Certainly with the failure of the Kings, this kind of information would be unlikely to be well known.

Denethor of course did know of Elrond and Rivendell, just not where they were exactly...