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Old 05-19-2009, 03:48 PM   #1
Findegil
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Part two of the text:
Quote:
The Death of Fingolfin
§144 It came to pass that news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of {Finrod}[Finarfin] overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. RB-DF-01{Then Fingolfin saw that the ruin of the {Gnomes}[Noldor] was at hand, and he was filled with wrath and despair, and a madness came upon him. And he rode alone to the gates of Angband, and he sounded his horn and smote upon the brazen gates and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. }<GA Now Fingolfin, King of the Noldor, beheld (as him seemed) the utter ruin of his people, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses, and he was filled with wrath and despair. ... Thus he came alone to Angband's [brazen ]gate and smote upon it once again, and sounding a challenge upon his silver horn he called Morgoth himself to come forth to combat, crying: 'Come forth, thou coward king, to fight with thine own hand! Den-dweller, wielder of thralls, liar and lurker, foe of {Gods}[Valar] and Elves, come! For I would see thy craven face.'> And Morgoth came. That was the last time in these wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might RB-DF-02 {is}<LQ1 was> greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he RB-DF-03 {knows}<LQ1 knew> fear. ... But Fingolfin RB-DF-04 <GA withstood him> {gleamed}gleaming beneath it like a star; for his mail was overlaid with silver, and his blue shield was set with crystals; and he drew his sword Ringil, and it glittered like ice, cold and grey and deadly. ...
§147 Thus died Fingolfin, High-king of the {Gnomes}[Noldor], most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old. The Orcs make no boast of that duel at the gate; neither do the Elves sing of it, RB-DF-05 {for sorrow; but the tale of it is remembered, for Thorondor, king of eagles, brought the tidings to Gondolin, and to Hithlum. For Morgoth}<LQ1 for their sorrow is too deep. Yet the tale of it is remembered still, for Thorondor, king of eagles, brought the tidings to Gondolin, and to Hithlum afar off. Lo! Morgoth> took the body of the Elven-king and broke it, and would hew it asunder and cast it to his wolves; but Thorondor came hasting from his eyrie among the peaks of {Gochressiel}[Crissaegrim], and he stooped upon Morgoth, and smote his golden beak into his face. ... Morgoth RB-DF-06 {goes ever halt of one foot since that day, and the pain of his wounds cannot}<LQ2 went ever halt of one foot after that day, and the pain of his wounds could not> be healed; and in his face is the scar that Thorondor made.
§148 RB-DF-07 <GA Now Rochallor had stayed beside the king until the end, but the wolves of Angband assailed him, and he escaped from them because of his great swiftness, and ran at last to Hithlum, and broke his heart and died.> There was lamentation in Hithlum when the fall of Fingolfin became known; ... And the Orcs growing ever bolder wandered at will far and wide, coming down Sirion in the West and {Celon}[Limhir] in the East, and they encompassed Doriath; and they harried the lands, so that beast and bird fled before them, and silence and desolation spread steadily from the North. Great numbers of the {Gnomes}[Noldor], and of the Dark-elves, they took captive and led to Angband, and made thralls, forcing them to use their skill and knowledge in the service of Morgoth. ...
§149 Yet Morgoth sent also his spies and emissaries among the Dark-elves and the thrall-{Gnomes}[Noldor], ... and indeed as the times darkened they had a measure of truth, for the hearts and minds of the Elves of Beleriand became clouded with despair and fear. RB-DF-08 {And most the Gnomes feared}<LQ1 And ever the {Gnomes}[Noldor] feared most> the treachery of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; ...
RB-DF-09 <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, the Forest under Nightshade.
§159 At last so desperate was the case of Barahir that Emeldir the Manhearted his wife ... And some were there received into Haleth's folk, and some passed on to {Dorlomin}[Dor-Lómin] and the people of {Galion}[Galdor] Hador's son. ... For these were slain one by one, or fled, until at last only Barahir and Beren his son, and Baragund and Belegund sons of Bregolas, were left, and with them {[eight >]} nine desperate men whose names were long remembered in song: Dagnir and Ragnor, Radhruin and Dairuin and Gildor, Urthel and Arthad and Hathaldir, and Gorlim Unhappy. ... No help came to them and they were hunted as wild beasts.>
Yet RB-DF-10 {Haleth and his men}<LQ2 the People of Haleth>{ remained still free; for they} had been at first untouched by the northern war, since they dwelt to the southward in the woods by Sirion... for after the taking of {Minnastirith}[Minas Tirith] the Orcs came through the western pass, and would maybe have ravaged even unto the mouths of Sirion; but RB-DF-11 {Haleth}[Halmir Lord of the Haladin] sent swift word to Thingol, being friendly with many of the Elves that guarded the borders of Doriath. And Thingol sent Beleg the bowman, chief of his march-wardens, to his aid with many archers RB-DF-12 <GA and great strength of the Eglath armed with axes>; and {Haleth}[Halmir] and Beleg took an Orc-legion at unawares in the forest, and destroyed it; and the advance of the power of Morgoth southward down the course of Sirion was stayed{.}, RB-DF-13 <GA and the Orcs did not dare to cross the {Taiglin}[Taeglin] for many years after.> Thus the folk of Haleth dwelt yet for many years in watchful peace in the forest of Brethil; and behind their guard the kingdom of Nargothrond had respite and mustered anew its strength.
RB-DF-14 §153 It is said that Húrin <GA and Huor> {son}sons of {Gumlin}[Galdor], son of Hador, of Hithlum {was}were with {Haleth}[Halmir] in that battle, and {he was}they were then seventeen[ and thirteen] years of age; and this {was his}were their first deed of arms, but not {his}their last. For {Húrin son}[the sons] of {Gumlin}[Galdor] {was}were fostered for a while in boyhood by {Haleth}[Halmir], according to the custom of Men and Elves in that time. And it is recorded that {in the autumn of the year of Sudden {Fire}[Flame] {Haleth}[Halmir] took Húrin, then newcome from his father's house, and they went hunting} <GA being with a company that was cut off from the rest, they were pursued to the ford of Brithiach; and there they would have been taken or slain, but for the power of Ulmo, which was still strong in Sirion. Therefore a mist arose from the river and hid them from their enemies, and they escaped into Dimbar, and wandered> northward up the vale of Sirion{; and by chance or the will of Ulmo they came upon the secret entrance to the hidden valley of Tumladin, where Gondolin was built}. But they were taken by the {guards}[guard of the eagles], and brought before Turgon; and they looked upon the forbidden city, whereof none of those outside yet knew aught, save Thorondor king of eagles. Turgon welcomed them; for messages and dreams had come to him up Sirion from the sea, from Ulmo, Lord of Waters, warning him of woe to come and foretelling that the aid of mortal men would be necessary, if he would save any of the {Gnomes}[Noldor] from their doom. But Turgon deemed that Gondolin was strong, and the time not ripe for its revealing; and he would not suffer the men to depart. It is said that he had great liking for the boy Húrin, and love was joined to policy; for he desired to keep Húrin at his side in Gondolin. But tidings came of the great battle, and the need of {Gnomes}[Elves] and Men; and {Haleth and }Húrin[ and Hour] besought Turgon for leave to go to the aid of their own folk. Turgon then granted their prayer, but they swore deep oaths to him, and never revealed his secret; and such of the counsels of Turgon as Húrin had learned he kept hidden in his heart. Turgon would not as yet suffer any of his own folk to issue forth to war, and {Haleth and }Húrin[ and Huor] departed from Gondolin alone[ by the way that had come]. But Turgon, rightly deeming that the breaking of the Siege of Angband was the beginning of the downfall of the Noldor, ...
§155 Rumour came to Morgoth of these things, ... Thus Beleriand in the South had a semblance of peace again for a few brief years; but the forges of Angband were full of labour.
TO be continued.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:52 PM   #2
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Part three of the text:
Quote:
The Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor
RB-SE-01 <Sil77 When seven years had passed since the Fourth Battle,> <GA {Here} Morgoth renewed his assaults, seeking to advance further into Beleriand and secure his hold southwards. ... The army that had driven into East Beleriand had been broken by Thingol on the borders of Doriath, and part had fled away south never to return to him, part retreating north had been stricken by a sortie of {Maidros}[Maeðros], while those that ventured near the mountains were hunted by the Dwarves. And still upon his flank Hithlum stood firm.>
{§156 Nor did the assault upon the northern strongholds cease. Himring Morgoth besieged so close that no help might come from {Maidros}[Maeðros], and he threw suddenly a great force against Hithlum.} RB-SE-02 <GA §171 He resolved, therefore, now to send force against Hithlum; for in the eastward war he hoped ere long to have new help unforeseen by the Eldar. The assault upon Hithlum was bitter, but it was repelled from the passes of Erydwethrin. There, however, in the siege of the fortress of Eithel Sirion {Galion}[Galdor] was slain, for he held it on behalf of King Fingon. Húrin his son was but then new come to manhood, but he was mighty in heart and strength, and he defeated the Orcs and drove them with loss from the walls into the sands of Anfauglith. Thereafter he ruled the House of Hador. {[Added subsequently:]} Of less stature was he than his father (or his son after him), but tireless and enduring in body; lithe and swift he was, after the manner of his mother's kin, the daughter of {Haleth}[Halmir].
§172 But King Fingon with most of the Noldor was hard put to it to hold back the army of Angband that came down from the north.> The Orcs won many of the passes, and some came even into Mithrim RB-SE-03 <GA Battle was joined upon the very plains of Hithlum, and Fingon was outnumbered; but timely help came from Círdan. His ships in great strength sailed into Drengist and there landed a force that came up in the hour of need upon the west flank of the enemy. Then the Eldar had the victory and the Orcs broke and fled>; but Fingon drove them in the end with heavy slaughter from the land, and pursued them far across the sands of Fauglith RB-SE-04 <GA , {pursued}pursuing them by the horsed archers even to the Iron Mountains.>. Yet sorrow marred his victory, for [the death of ]{Gumlin}[Galdor] son of Hador {was }slain by an arrow in the siege of the fortress of Fingon at Eithel Sirion. {Húrin his son was then new-come to manhood, but he was great in strength both of mind and body; and he ruled now the house of Hador and served Fingon.[Footnote: For he returned unto his own folk after the victory in the woods of Brethil, while the ways north to Hithlum were passable because of the defeat of the Orcs at that time.]} And in this time also the outlaws of Dorthonion were destroyed, and Beren son of Barahir alone escaping came hardly into Doriath.
To be continued.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:59 PM   #3
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Part four of the text:
Quote:
Of the Swarthy Men
§150 To Men Morgoth feigned pity, if any would hearken to his messages, saying that their woes came only of their servitude to the rebel {Gnomes}[Elves], but at the hands of the rightful lord of earth they would get honour and a just reward of valour, if they would leave rebellion. ...
§151 RB-SM-01 <GA {the}The Swarthy Men came out of Eriador, and passing north about the Eryd Luin entered into Lothlann. Their coming was not wholly unlookedfor, since the Dwarves had warned {Maidros}[Maeðros] that hosts of Men out of the further East were journeying towards Beleriand.> Now the Easterlings or Romenildi, as the Elves named these newcomers, were short and broad, long and strong in the arm; their hair was black, and grew much also upon their face and breast; their skins were swart or sallow, and their eyes brown RB-SM-02 {; yet their countenances were for the most part not uncomely, though some were grim and fierce. Their houses and tribes were many, and some had greater liking for the {Dwarfs}[Dwarves] of the mountains than for the Elves. But the sons of Fëanor, seeing the weakness of the Noldor, and the growing power of the armies of Morgoth, made alliances with these men, and gave their friendship to the greatest of their chieftains, Bor and Ulfang.}<GA But they were not all of one kind, in looks or in temper, or in tongue. Some were not uncomely and were fair to deal with; some were grim and ill-favoured and of little trust. Their houses were many, and there was little love among them. They had small liking for the Elves, and for the most part loved rather the Naugrim of the mountains; but they were abashed by the lords of the Noldor, whose like they had not before encountered.
§174 But {Maidros}[Maeðros], knowing the weakness of the Noldor and the Elf-friends, whereas the pits of Angband seemed to hold store inexhaustible and ever renewed, made alliance with these new-come Men, and gave them dwellings both in Lothlann north of the March, and in the lands south of it. Now the two chieftains that had the greatest followings and authority were named Bor and Ulfang.> And Morgoth was well content; for this was as he had designed. The sons of Bor were RB-SM-03 {Borlas and Boromir and Borthandos}<LQ2 Borlad and Borlach and Borthand>RB-SM-04 <GA , and they were goodly men> ; and they followed {Maidros}[Maeðros] and {Maglor}[Maelor], and cheated the hope of Morgoth, and were faithful. The sons of Ulfang the Black were Ulfast and Ulwarth and Uldor the Accursed; and they followed {Cranthir}[Caranthir] and swore allegiance to him, and proved faithless. RB-SM-05 <GA, Version II (It was after thought that the people of Ulfang were already secretly in the service of Morgoth ere they came to Beleriand.)><GA; Version II [Footnote: Not so the people of Bor, who were worthy folk and tillers of the earth. Of them, it is said, came the most ancient of the Men that dwelt in the north of Eriador in the Second Age and {[? read} in{]} after-days.]>
§152 There was small love between the Three Houses and the Swarthy Men; and they met seldom. For the newcomers abode long in East Beleriand; but the people of Hador were shut in Hithlum, and Bëor's house was well nigh destroyed. {Yet}[u]And[/b] RB-SM-06 {Haleth and his men}<LQ2 the People of Haleth> {remained still free; for they had been at first untouched by the northern war, since they} dwelt to the southward in the woods by Sirion.
I will not comment on the changes today, since I am to tired. I think most of them should be selfevident. Beside I would have to dig deep in my mind to find what I thought back when I made these draft. So please start up the discussion when you see a point I missed or a change you find not okay.
Please feel free to disagree with me!

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Old 05-20-2009, 04:13 AM   #4
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Ok, I was reading your draft. The structure with mine is different because I follow the sequence of Sil77 but in the narrative sense tells the same. I don't think it matters.

Two things, in a first reading, leaving apart the parentage of Orodreth (in my text is the brother of Finrod) I think that is better to place the fled of his wife and sons (including Ereinion, not named Gil-galad yet), with him to Nargothrond when Sauron attacks Minas Tirith.

And why you change the placing of the sentence about Celegorm and Curufin in Nargothrond?

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Old 05-20-2009, 08:13 AM   #5
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About the flight of Gil-galad with his mother: I think the main diffrence between your version and what I propose here, is that Gil-galad and his mother never came to Nargothrond in my version. They are send to the Havens, when things in the north become dangerous. Thus I avoid having Gil-galad involved in the Fall of Nargothrond, which would mean naming a way of escape for him. It is debateable when Gil-galad recived this name.

About Celegrom and Curufin: My understanding is that the brothers got to Nargothrond only after they had rescued Orodreth retreat from Tolsirion. Therefore I told at first only that they retreated to the West from Aglon.

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Last edited by Findegil; 05-20-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:44 PM   #6
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<GA Then {Inglor}[Finrod] went south to Nargothrond RB-DB-17 <QS , his deep fortress prepared against the evil day>, but Barahir returned to Dorthonion to save what he could of the people of Bëor.> RB-DB-18 <LQ2; Correction to QS But fearing now that all strong places were doomed to fall at last before the might of Morgoth, {he}[Orodreth] sent away his wife{ Meril} to her own folk in Eglorest, and with her went their son, yet an elvenchild, and Gilgalad Starlight he was called for the brightness of his eye.>
Should we not amend the "But" I have underlined to an "And," as the previous sentence not only begins with "but" as well, but also does not lead into the sentence about Orodreth at all?
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:17 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=Findegil;597184]Part three of the text:
Quote:
§172 ... but Fingon drove them in the end with heavy slaughter from the land, and pursued them far across the sands of Fauglith RB-SE-04 <GA , {pursued}pursuing them by the horsed archers even to the Iron Mountains.>.
1. There is the redundancy of pursued...pursuing
2. "pursuing them by..." sounds ungrammatical to me
3. Should be Anfauglith

Maybe:
Quote:
§172 ... but Fingon drove them in the end with heavy slaughter from the land, and pursued them <GA {by} with the horsed archers> far across the sands of Anfauglith <GA even to the Iron Mountains.>.

Last edited by Ekimeniso; 01-10-2011 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Inserted "Maybe:"
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:04 PM   #8
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RB-SE-04:
I agree to your suggestion how to deal with the redundancy. But I am not sure that we could not still use 'Fauglith'. The full name was Dor-na-Fauglith 'Land of the Gasping Dust'. Anfauglith would then be 'The Gasping Dust' and Fauglith simply 'Gasping Dust'.

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Old 01-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
RB-SE-04:
I agree to your suggestion how to deal with the redundancy. But I am not sure that we could not still use 'Fauglith'. The full name was Dor-na-Fauglith 'Land of the Gasping Dust'. Anfauglith would then be 'The Gasping Dust' and Fauglith simply 'Gasping Dust'.

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I have to say I find the whole matter of Fauglith, Anfauglith/Dor-na-Fauglith, Dor-no-Fauglith, Dor-nu-Fauglith confusing. You're right of course.

But something different: how are the changes of the course of events in the Shibboleth generally treated? In this case Fingon's kingship of the Noldor...
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:12 PM   #10
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Kingship of Fingon: I do not think that we must make a change for that. The sentence does allow the kingship that Fingon took up to be only that of the Noldor in Hithlum. Other wise we could simply skip 'of the Noldor', if that is thought to be better.

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Old 01-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #11
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One thing:

I don't know if this was discussed in another thread, but although the professor himself wrote in LQ that Thorondor was living in Crissaegrin, for some reason (I suppose due to the allusion in UT, earlier than the revision of the QS) I had taken the decision of place the home of Eagles in Thangorodrim and from the dead of Fingolfin tell that the eagles started living in Crissaegrin.

It would be easier for Thorondor and more coherent, that came from Thangorodrim than Crissaegrin, much further.

Perhaps the professor careless forgot it, when revising QS.

What do you think?
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
Kingship of Fingon: I do not think that we must make a change for that. The sentence does allow the kingship that Fingon took up to be only that of the Noldor in Hithlum. Other wise we could simply skip 'of the Noldor', if that is thought to be better.

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Okay, I just wondered about the general treatment of the Shibboleth. In the Darkening of Valinor thread direct quotes from the Shibboleth were inserted, while the general change of the course of events (Míriels fea only leaves her body after Feanor is fully grown; Finwe only asks Manwe for a solution after he's fallen in love with Indis) was not adapted (I think it could be done). OTOH as far as I understand it the death of Amras in the burning of the ships WILL be included, right? Of course this doesn't really belong to this thread. Was this discussed somewhere before, or is there a rule of thump as to where the dividing line is between material that is treated as part of the canon and material that will not be considered? For example, if we accept that there was no High King after the fall of Fingolfin, why not insert the direct quote?
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