Army Composition/Soldier Types

[JeffF.]

Hi Rumil,

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Gandalph's statement to me is based on what he knows of the enemy as a whole and not a temporary state of affairs. Theoden also divided his charge into three parts with Eomer following the King's household troops down the center, Elfhelm leading the right flank and Grimbold leading the left. This would have been necessary to engage the larger enemy force and bringing the greatest shock action to bear. Each of these divisions would have had about 2000 Rohirrim. The way I read the engagment: "...their horsemen were gathered about the standard of their chieftain. And he looked out....he saw the banner of the king...with few men about it,...then he came against the white horse with a great press of men...." to me that means the Haradrim were concentrating against Theoden and the men of the King's household "the few" that were with him at that moment and not a general attack against the entire mass of the Haradrim and that the statement made about the King's men being fewer is pertaining only to this small engagement within the general action.

[Rumil]

Hi JeffF,

agree that its ambiguous, were the Haradrim outnumbering Theoden's eored, Theoden's 'division' of 2000, or the entire force of Rohirric cav? I don't think one can tell with certainty from the text but even if it were just the central division, they might be 3000 or more.

I'm also tempted to see the Haradrim as similar to the Moors in Spain or the Saracens, that were quite cavalry-heavy. Therefore 1/3 of the force being cav would be, if anything, rather on the low side. It's an open question too as to what the rest of the 18,000 or so Haradrim were, inf or cav, apart from the Mumakil of course.

Also it removes one of the few 'hard numbers' we have !

As for Gandalf's remark it seems plain to me that this was considering the forces available at that time, to base it on the forces that would arrive in a day or two's time is illogical.

'A sortie must be made ready. Let it be of mounted men. In them lies our brief hope, for in one thing only is the enemy still poorly provided: he has few horsemen.'
'And also we have few...' said Denethor