Spare a copper guv....?

[Morsul the Dark]

the tolkien estate makes 7.8 million dollars a year, and I hate to say this however, movie studios make movies so they need funds more dearly than the estate.

Creative accounting is everywhere, especially "Non-Profits" just give the "not profit" money to some as a bonus voila profit gone.

[Boromir88]

Creative accounting is everywhere, especially "Non-Profits" just give the "not profit" money to some as a bonus voila profit gone.~Morsul

True

the tolkien estate makes 7.8 million dollars a year, and I hate to say this however, movie studios make movies so they need funds more dearly than the estate.

True as well...but here comes the but (there's always a but )

The estate also gives millions of dollars to charities and the point of the lawsuit is to seek money that is owed to them. Money that they deserve from a contract signed 40 years ago.

Not to get into some philosophical state of the world (well I guess that is the point if I'm bringing it up ), but it's interesting how in LOTR there is a lot of power behind sworn words, oaths. Now we move into a world where a person's "promise" means very little (if anything at all) in a court of law. You need a signed contract, and now it's about trying to find loopholes to break a signed contract. They broke their obligations, and should pay up, whether it's to a multi-million dollar estate or not.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Technically the plaintiff in the suit is not the Tolkien Estate, but the Tolkien Trust, its charitable arm, which gives millions in philanthropy.

More to the point: even if the plaintiff were the Manson Family, if they have a contract it must be honored. Full stop.

[davem]

This may be of interest - Charity Commission page for the Tolkien Trust http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk...idiaryNumber=0
You can download their accounts for the year ending April 2008 & see what grants they've made - a total of £1,325,425. (Its in the 'About this Charity' box on the top left - just click 'View Accounts') You'll also notice this little statement

The substantial increase (£187,716 in 2007 to £311,737 in 2008 - or £124,021) in Solicitors' costs and Other legal fees arises from the claim against New Line Cinema in connection with which legal proceedings were commenced in February 2008 ....

The Trustees have been advised that they are entitled to an accounting for their share of a gross profit participation due in respect of the recently released films based on "The Lord of the Rings", as successors-in-interest under a contract entered into in July 1969 which disposed of the film rights in that work. Together with two other plaintiffs jointly entitled to such accounting, they commenced legal proceedings against New Line Cinema in the courts of Los Angeles in February 2008. The three plaintiffs are collectively claiming compensatory damages in excess of $150 million and other relief in the proceedings. An audit is in progress to quantify the claim and the proportionate entitlements of the plaintiffs. The anticipated cost of the legal proceedings remains in the range $1.5 to 2.5 million.

in other words £124,021 which could have gone to good causes has had to be spent by the Trust in pursuing its legal obligations - & yes, as I understand it they are obliged to chase New Line for the money.....

[Bêthberry]

If New Line is found negligent, can they not be required to pay the Trust's legal costs?

[Morsul the Dark]

look it depends on the wording, Nobody denies they get money what's unknown is from who.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

look it depends on the wording, Nobody denies they get money what's unknown is from who.

True it could be Saul Zaentz, or whatever rights got split up over the various years. But Zaentz is another plaintiff, along with the Trust, and the Trust is not suing Zaentz so I guess they don't think it is his responsibility.

This could be trying to suck New Line completely dry, but just realize that New Line does not have a good track record at making payments. They failed to pay Jackson what they said they would, they failed to pay a group of LOTR actors, they failed to pay Zaentz, and now the Trust believes they didn't get paid what is owed to them. It's hard to make any good defense for New Line, other than admitting they didn't own up to a contract, considering their track record.

If New Line is found negligent, can they not be required to pay the Trust's legal costs?~Bethberry

I believe that is something the Trust would have to ask for in their lawsuit...I haven't looked at it in a long time, so I forget whether they have or not. But, a judge cannot award money to someone if that person/group of people isn't asking for it.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

If New Line is found negligent, can they not be required to pay the Trust's legal costs?

If they are - but, in the words of the great E.L. Wisty "British justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be ..believed" & I've no doubt American justice is not too different

The real point though, is that even if the Trust do succeed & get their costs awarded (by no means guaranteed, & even if they do what's left of New Line may claim they have no cash to pay it) they have still to spend money fighting the case which they could be donating to charities in real need. Or in other words a lot of real suffering by real human beings will have continued which wouldn't have continued if New Line hadn't been a bunch of 'creative accountants'. Not to mention what the Trust could have done over the last 8 years with the profits they should have got.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Nope- in the US (unlike Britain) parties to a suit pay their own attorneys' fees, win or lose.

It is however very true that the Tolkien Trust is a fiduciary and as such has a legal obligation to recover monies owed to it.

It's no longer a question of "sucking New Line dry," since New Line as a legal entity has ceased to exist, having been absorbed into Time Warner (which is thus now responsible for New Line's liabilities).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

, movie studios make movies so they need funds more dearly than the estate.
.

Not sure that their need is greater than the many medical, humanitarian and educational charities that the Trust gives to. I don't see why the trust should effectively subsidise the film industry which is what they will be doing if they give up and go home - which seemingly isn't an option anyway.

However given the scandals close to home... surely there is a point where the accounting is so creative that it becomes a criminal rather than a civil matter? Surely the taxmen must be after their cut too?

[davem]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/enterta...-Them-All.html

Seems the Trust are in front at this stage.