Frodo and Bilbo

[alatar]

It's sad, from a genetic point of view, that Frodo did not marry or beget children. Though his genes were present in the community, this one exceptional individual may have changed the overall disposition of the Hobbit 'pool.' Sam's children were exceptional; how much better those of his Master?

I can understand why Frodo did not marry after his return - too messed up both physically and mentally to attend to such matters. Plus, like his uncle, he had seen female elves, and after that there's no going back to Hobbit women. But beforehand, if Frodo was not considering marriage, was there at least some lass he was becoming sweet on?

And to think that, after losing the One Ring in the Sammath Naur, he could have come home and put on one almost as terrible (i.e. ever misplace your wedding band? ).

[Morsul the Dark]

firstly yes I have left my engagement ring (my girlfriend got me one with runes on it its purty, and cool) at another store I was visiting instead of my normal store.

anyway she asn't happy, to be fair I knew EXACTLY where in the store I had left it... anyway

I think Bilbo didn't marry but was planning to, 50 is a very reasonable age to start looking and he was becoming quite settled if maybe a couple years went by he would have been married.

I think Frodo was just a bachelor by nature he hung out with merry and pippin all the time. Sam is the only one that even seems interested in marriage at the beginning of the tale

[Hakon]

I don't think Bilbo wanted to get married. I think he would have if he had never gone on the adventure in the Hobbit. His adventure led him to view the world differently and I think marriage never appeared to be something he would need or want after that adventure. As for Frodo, he was not ever going to have a family after the destruction of the ring. I think he knew this when he became the ring bearer. He knew he would never get a family by taking on that task.

I would also like to point out that this thread is from 2002.

[Morsul the Dark]

hey old threads can be good threads

and remember the other hobbits did think bilbo had gone and married at first

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I don't think Bilbo wanted to get married. I think he would have if he had never gone on the adventure in the Hobbit. His adventure led him to view the world differently and I think marriage never appeared to be something he would need or want after that adventure. As for Frodo, he was not ever going to have a family after the destruction of the ring. I think he knew this when he became the ring bearer. He knew he would never get a family by taking on that task.

Are you saying that Bilbo already had had enough, having faced one Dragon?

I would also like to point out that this thread is from 2002.

Time is an artificial construct for some of us.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by alatar

Are you saying that Bilbo already had had enough, having faced one Dragon?


Time is an artificial construct for some of us.

tchnically time is artificial for ALL of us... by the way you divorced?

Bilbo battled goblins trolls and dragons.... and then had to deal with the sacksville bagginses of course he was swamped, plus all the hobbit women thought he was a weirdy

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by alatar

Are you saying that Bilbo already had had enough, having faced one Dragon?

Yes. I am saying he had already had enough by facing one dragon, goblins, elves, and more. I doubt he was in the mood for marriage when it came down to it after all that. Plus when he left on his adventure he was not exactly a young hobbit. If I remember correctly he was in his thirties or forties (correct me if I am wrong).

Originally Posted by alatar

Time is an artificial construct for some of us.

I know it is an artificial construct. The thing is I am still young, I have yet to get to that part of life where time seems to fly by.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

tchnically time is artificial for ALL of us... by the way you divorced?

Nope. On the contrary, I'm very happily married. Just playing up to the typical husband stereotypes.

And I too lost my ring for a while. Also got it stuck in the gears of a car seat, and it got somewhat mutilated; luckily a goldsmith could fix it.

Note that we considered getting each other LotR-like rings, but this is way before the movies, and so no one knew what we were talking about, so we got something else (see attached).

Bilbo battled goblins trolls and dragons.... and then had to deal with the sacksville bagginses of course he was swamped, plus all the hobbit women thought he was a weirdy

That I can get. Though even the geekiest guy can be in love with another, even if that love is not returned.

Originally Posted by Hakon

I know it is an artificial construct. The thing is I am still young, I have yet to get to that part of life where time seems to fly by.

The story is that, while commuting, I was listening to LotR via audio book, and started thinking about Frodo's life before he left the Shire, and then wondered if he was warm to some Hobbit lass or two, or if this was even on his mind at the time (Sackville-Bagginses married quite young), and so thought about starting a new thread, posing the question. Before doing so, I figured that I had better search to see if this was already discussed - it was.

As you noted, the thread was from 2002. We are currently (methinks) in 2009. To get back to when the thread was fresh, I would need to create a ripple in time-space. By my calculations, this could be achieved by exploding the sun (and maybe Mercury, depending if you round up or down).

I could then be back in 2002 and participate in the thread. Good for me; bad for all of you in 2009 (if you ever see a message from me stating that you should stock up on batteries, can goods and warm clothing, and to dump all of your stock in sun tan lotion...). Hopefully, back in 2002 I would know not to explode the sun in 2009.

Or I could just resurrect this thread.

Anyway, I was just thinking about the Baggins' genes, and that Bilbo and Frodo never lived a domestic life.

[Hakon]

That I can get. Though even the geekiest guy can be in love with another, even if that love is not returned.

That is true. The thing is that Bilbo is a creature of habit, we see that in the Hobbit. I think that after one massive adventure he was ready to just go back to his routine. He did not want to change that routine he wanted to keep it the same after his massive adventure.

About that ring, it does sort of look like the one ring only much fancier.

[Guinevere]

Good idea to revive this thread, Alatar!

Originally Posted by alatar

I started thinking about Frodo's life before he left the Shire, and then wondered if he was warm to some Hobbit lass or two, or if this was even on his mind at the time (Sackville-Bagginses married quite young)

I had been contemplating this too, especially after reading some fanfictions...

But I think Frodo was always an exceptional hobbit, already long before the quest (probably through all that he had been taught by Bilbo). There was always a longing in him for something higher.

Frodo went tramping all over the Shire with them; but more often he wandered by himself, and to the amazement of sensible folk he was sometimes seen far from home walking in the hills and woods under the starlight. Merry and Pippin suspected that he visited the Elves at times, as Bilbo had done.

I guess there were just no hobbit lasses around that would have been a match for Frodo, that would have understood him!

And look at this quote:

‘I should like to save the Shire, if I could - though there have been times when I thought the inhabitants too stupid and dull for words, and have felt that an earthquake or an invasion of dragons might be good for them.

Well, considering this opinion he could hardly find anyone in the Shire to fall in love with!

On the other hand, when Frodo greets Goldberry, he behaves almost a bit like someone falling in love...

‘Fair lady Goldberry!’ said Frodo at last, feeling his heart moved with a joy that he did not understand. He stood as he had at times stood enchanted by fair elven-voices; but the spell that was now laid upon him was different: less keen and lofty was the delight, but deeper and nearer to mortal heart; marvellous and yet not strange.

And after the quest, he's too estranged and damaged anyway, poor Hobbit!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by alatar

he had seen female elves, and after that there's no going back to Hobbit women

I wouldn't say that. Marrying a woman of your own kind does have its advantages - if only that you don't have to climb on a chair every time you want to kiss her.

[Hakon]

Well Gimli did not seem to mind the height issue when it came to love.

[Pitchwife]

No, he didn't, but that was romantic chivalry rather than the kind of love that might lead to marriage.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

No, he didn't, but that was romantic chivalry rather than the kind of love that might lead to marriage.

That and that she had a husband...

Bilbo, and even more so Frodo, were exceptional individuals. Sam, Merry and Pippin marry. Aragorn, Eomer, Eowyn and Faramir marry. The two hobbits' genes or avatars disappear in the next generation.

Think that the reason Bilbo doesn't get married is to keep him 'different' - unsettled - before he starts chasing Dwarves, and afterwards he's not really the focus of the story. Plus having a wife would complicate the LotR story, as he certainly would have had to share the secret of the Ring with her.

And how does he leave? What about watching your wife die while you continue on and on? Would he feel the same about leaving the Ring behind? Or would he succumb to despair when his wife departed?

The big question, is, could the Ringbearers have a greater love than the Ring? Would it share?

And Frodo, after his adventure, does not then need to began a love story. His life is that much more interesting as he must leave behind all those things that he struggled and sacrificed to save.

[Hakon]

I think another reason Frodo did not marry is because he needed to be away from people. I do not think he would be able to take the sound of children, his own and others in the Shire. He ends up going with the Elves who are very peaceful and quiet people. My point is I think Frodo needed a relaxed quiet life after such an adventure. Bilbo not so much.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I think another reason Frodo did not marry is because he needed to be away from people. I do not think he would be able to take the sound of children, his own and others in the Shire. He ends up going with the Elves who are very peaceful and quiet people. My point is I think Frodo needed a relaxed quiet life after such an adventure. Bilbo not so much.

I'm not sure. Seems that if he wanted total piece and quiet, he would have asked Sam to live elsewhere. Think that it wasn't only a peaceful environment he sought, but a peace of the soul. For Frodo, so marred by the Ring, his only recourse short of death was Aman. Surely he could have just died, or taken his own life, but he deserved some reward as Frodo's act saved many a people and thing. He gets nothing in the Shire, though the inhabitants should have built a monument to him (as Gondor should have). So, in the end, he gets a boat ride into the West. Not, mayhap, as fitting an end as some of us would have preferred, but with some thought (which it provokes), it makes sense.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I think, in the case of Bilbo, perhaps he just didn't feel like getting married. That in itself is a lot of responsibility on someone, and maybe before his journey, he was that sort of hobbit. Before Gandalf showed up, he'd been portrayed as an ordinary hobbit, remember how horrified he was that such outlandish folk would be seen around Bag End?But after the journey, he would rather have been writing in his book, and he set Frodo up as his heir, so there was no need for him to marry just to have kids. Frodo, on the other hand, was stuck between being sociable and being with Bilbo. The older hobbit played a huge part in his life, and it wouldn't be surprising if he'd been Frodo's role model. If it hadn't been for him, Frodo would likely have not felt such a taste for adventure, because he would not have seen what good was possible to come of it.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Maybe meeting Lobelia Sackville-Baggins put Bilbo off marriage.

[Hakon]

Good one. Although maybe it was meeting Smaug that put Bilbo off of marriage. I mean maybe his happy day dreams of love got mixed with his nightmares of Smaug breathing fire and he began dreaming about a fire breathing wife.