Tom Bombadil

[davem]

Over on another forum (LotR Plaza) there's a long discussion on TB (currently 12 pages long). The recently auctioned letter which contains the following

The letter continues with a detailed discussion of The Lord of the Rings, considering Mroczkowski's suggestion as to 'the simultaneity of different planes of reality touching one another ... part of the deeply felt idea that I had ... Beyond that too I feel that no construction of the human mind, whether in imagination or the highest philosophy, can contain within its own "englobement" all that there is ... There is always something left over that demands a different or longer construction to "explain" it ... This is like a "play", in which ... there are noises that do not belong, chinks in the scenery', discussing in particular the status of Tom Bombadil in this respect.

has been discussed & Charles Noad (Tolkien expert who proof read most of HoM-e for Christopher Tolkien) who got to see the whole letter at the auction passed on the following report:

Here Tolkien uses the analogy of a theatrical performance, where as well as the play that is being performed, there are chinks in the scenery which give glimpses of another different world outside - that of the producer and stagehands (and the author!). TB does not belong to the main pattern of the Legendarium, as can be deduced from the fact that the Ring has no effect on him whatsoever - he is outside the problems of power that involve the other characters. Tolkien says that he was tempted to 'tinker' with him to bring him into line, but (most unusually for Tolkien) he resisted that temptation.

So, direct from the horse's mouth, as 'twere, we have a clear statement that Tom is 'external' to the world of Middle-earth, & that Tolkien specifically avoided the temptation to integrate him into the Legendarium. So, the short answer is that Tom 'is' - he is himself: not Eru, or one of the Valar, or an Elf, or anything else.

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by davem

Over on another forum (LotR Plaza) there's a long discussion on TB (currently 12 pages long). The recently auctioned letter which contains the following

has been discussed & Charles Noad (Tolkien expert who proof read most of HoM-e for Christopher Tolkien) who got to see the whole letter at the auction passed on the following report:



So, direct from the horse's mouth, as 'twere, we have a clear statement that Tom is 'external' to the world of Middle-earth, & that Tolkien specifically avoided the temptation to integrate him into the Legendarium. So, the short answer is that Tom 'is' - he is himself: not Eru, or one of the Valar, or an Elf, or anything else.

I see. Since Tom is supposed to be external from the world that probably means he is some sort of God like figure in another world. The power he has in middle earth is like a fraction of his real power. That is my guess, it does not make sense that he is just some regular human.

Radagastly the second quote you put there, helps back up what I said. He has been there since the start of Arda is what it sounds like. To have the power to enter Arda, must mean he is something like Eru's equal in another world or he is some extremely powerful being that has only a fraction of his power in Middle Earth.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I see. Since Tom is supposed to be external from the world that probably means he is some sort of God like figure in another world. The power he has in middle earth is like a fraction of his real power. That is my guess, it does not make sense that he is just some regular human.

He has been there since the start of Arda is what it sounds like. To have the power to enter Arda, must mean he is something like Eru's equal in another world or he is some extremely powerful being that has only a fraction of his power in Middle Earth.

I don't think it necessarily implies any kind of 'divinity'. It certainly means that either Tom & Goldberry are in some sense 'external', are 'intruders' into Middle-earth - or it means that in some way their world (Tom's Country) is in some sense one of the 'different planes of reality' which touch/interconnect in the sense Tolkien mentions in the letter - in which case it would be the four Hobbits who are intruders into Tom's world.

Of course, 'Tom's world' existed long before LotR was written & its usually assumed that he & Goldberry, Old Man Willow & the Barrow Wight were introduced into LotR to provide an 'adventure'. But given Tolkien's words in the letter -about 'chinks in the scenery which give glimpses of another different world outside' & 'something left over that demands a different or longer construction to "explain" it' it seems that Tolkien is experimenting with concepts of multiple realities & interconnected & separate but interdependent dimensions. In some sense 'Tom's Country' is not Middle-earth, & different rules apply there. Tom 'is' - within the world of Middle-earth he cannot be explained - Tolkien deliberately chose not to fit him in. In that sense all those critics who claim he doesn't 'belong', that he is out of place, are absolutely correct. It could be argued from what Tolkien writes in that letter that not only does he not 'fit', he was not meant to fit. In some way the Hobbits cross into a different time/place, another 'reality', & do not re-enter Middle-earth till they step onto the road near Bree. It is very much a dream world in a sense, & dreams play a prominent part in the whole episode for that reason. In Tom's Country it is the Hobbits who are out of place.

[Aiwendil]

I did search him. 20 pages came up and I went through about 8 of them and found no thread specifically about Bombadil.

The trick is to search by thread titles. Here are many previous Bombadil threads.

[Hakon]

Wow. A lot more thread than I thought and they go back a while. The oldest one I saw was from 2001.

[Morsul the Dark]

trust me when I say everything that CAN be discussed about LOTR HAS been discussed from Tom Bombadil to the most obscure things like whether nor not ents lay eggs.... or seeds or birth...

but there are really some good bombadil threads out there. obviously you'll never find the True answer...probably... but you will certainly find a theory you like!

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

At least we now all know that ents lay eggs.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Morsul

but there are really some good bombadil threads out there. obviously you'll never find the True answer...probably... but you will certainly find a theory you like!

Or not so good... like Ole Tom is actually Captain James T. Kirk.