WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Rikae]

Boro and Lommy mentioned checking Mira, but I actually think that would be rather misleading, since the decision to lynch Mira was influenced by the whole debate of double-lynch-vs.-lynching-doomed-person - a debate that isn't really resolved, as far as I can tell. I know I voted for Mira in good faith and innocently, and that had nothing to do with what her role was, which could very well be the case for others who voted for her,. If she is innocent (which I think she probably is) double-lynching her looks like a tactic for the aggressors to go after those who voted for her , who could well be innocent too. In fact, if we do double lynch her and she turns out innocent (or even cobbler), Boro and Lommy will become more suspicious in my eyes for that reason.

On the other hand, if she' did turn out to be an aggressor, it wouldn't tell us much of use either. The other aggressors wouldn't have much cause to have argued strongly against lynching her, since they were going to lose her anyway, but they also probably would have preferred to see an innocent lynched as well.

I still think the time isn't yet ripe for double-lynching.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well, at the risk of being Quartermaster Dumb, why?

I think he meant that Gwath wouldn't have encouraged suspicion towards my reveal if he had been a wolf with Sally, since it might have put her in danger? It doesn't really make sense, though, since it's not likely I would have been lynched after my reveal, regardless of Gwath's, Izzy's, and Inzil's suspicions. I'd ask him, but he's making pancakes at the moment.

[Boromir88]

The more I see of Mac, the more wary I get.~Lommy

I'm suspicious of Mac, solely for the reason that he said my Nogrod case looked far fetched. I mean excluding Rikae's points today about Gwath, I haven't seen much better reason, or a case to lynch someone, other than what I said about Nogrod yesterday.

Mac saying it looked far-fetched, looks like he's trying to protect Nogrod and since I'm suspicious of Nogrod, I've been watching Mac. But, not knowing Nogrod's role, currently I still think Mac may be a co-conspirator, his first day and half suspicion against Nogrod could have been an attempt to find a mutineer, and his backing off, is to protect a mutineer-Nogrod.

Anyway, those have been my thoughts on Mac for the last day +

I think it would be most beneficial to know what Mira was and Annu may be less beneficial information - and checking McCab, the Day1 lynch? The fact that Boro even considers it makes him seem cobblerish.~

I guess since I want to consider all options that makes me a cobbler?

I think knowing McCaber's role could be beneficial, considering Shasta and Nogrod were also in danger of being lynched. And in this set up, it would be less risk if mutineers wanted to protect other mutineers.

And actually, I've been rather unsure of Nogrod all the game and I was stretching a little when saying I'm not suspicious of him to prove the point that I don't feel secure trusting you... duh.

You're asking yourself the wrong question which is why you're just confusing yourself. You're asking "Can Boro be manipulative and tricksy when he's evil?" Come on, we all know the answer to that, and that's why you don't feel safe trusting me.

Ask yourself...right now, at this moment, do you think based on the kill choices, the no kill, based on everything I have said, do you think I'm innocent? I expect only a yes or no back, no "yes but..." or "no but..." No thinking yourself into circles, just "yes" or "no."

[Boromir88]

Oh, and I'm not saying we need to double-kill today, I was just bringing up the possibility that since the wolves missed a chance yesterday, now we actually could take a chance to double-kill

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

think he meant that Gwath wouldn't have encouraged suspicion towards my reveal if he had been a wolf with Sally, since it might have put her in danger? It doesn't really make sense, though, since it's not likely I would have been lynched after my reveal, regardless of Gwath's, Izzy's, and Inzil's suspicions. I'd ask him, but he's making pancakes at the moment.

I don't think that would do you much good anyway– it was I who said it, not Mac. And yes, I was referring to Gwath's behaviour. He was pushing quite hard to lynch you.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Nerwen]

Now I'm starting to wonder if Gwath and Boro are in it together.

[A Little Green]

Phew. It took me something like 3 hours to read the thread... I'm kinda glad to be a ghost since I really can't make much out of this mess. A few little (green) comments, though.

First of all, a small thing, probably a mistake but I'd like it cleared just in case.

Originally Posted by Lomz, about Nog yesterDay

However, I'm still hesitant to think he's evil. I think he could have done all of that as a baddie.

Eh?

Then a few comments 'bout the people.

-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter
Confuses me.

-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy
I'm inclined to believe she's the hunter.

-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster
Seems rather like the innocent Lommy.

-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot
Hmm. Earlier on in the game I felt pretty good about him but his reaction to Rikae's reveal was interesting and made me unsure.

-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner
I'm thinking him an unlikely mutineer but possible co-conspirator, maybe leaning ordo above anything else.

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
Leaning innocent.

-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
No idea whatsoever.

-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
The only one I have information on. She is not a mutineer. She is either innocent or a co-conspie. I guess she's innocent.

-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe)
Seems genuine and makes shrewd points.

-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
I don't like his vagueness (is that a word?). I was somewhat suspicious of him before people started suspecting him, after which he started to seem more genuine.

-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner
I have the feeling he's being ordo, mutineer, and co-conspirator all at once.

-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker - Is it only me or is she acting real strange? She has become increasingly weird as the game progresses and I'd really want to know what she is up to. Leaning co-conspie. Probably not a mutineer - I get the feeling that a mutineer-Izzy would be more careful and slippery.

-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
Leaning innocent.

-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey
No idea.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I'm starting to wonder if Gwath and Boro are in it together.

Gwath and Boro? Why them?

I'd like to check the interactions between Nog and Sally. Dunno why, that just popped into me mind. I might do that still toDay.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Gwath and Boro? Why them?

*shrugs* Only because Boro seems to be trying so hard for double-lynching someone... it just occurred to me that he might be trying to take the heat off Gwath. I don't really suspect him all that strongly, though.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I don't think that would do you much good anyway– it was I who said it, not Mac. And yes, I was referring to Gwath's behaviour. He was pushing quite hard to lynch you.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

So that's why Mac seemed confused. Well, it seemed to me Inzil was pushing harder - and also that Gwath would have known it wasn't going to happen.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I'm starting to wonder if Gwath and Boro are in it together.

Seems like a possibility.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So that's why Mac seemed confused. Well, it seemed to me Inzil was pushing harder - and also that Gwath would have known it wasn't going to happen.

Well, maybe I was a little too hasty in saying Gwath and Sally couldn't be packmates, but I still think it makes it less likely – some goes for Inzil and Sally.

[Thinlómien]

You people are again assuming that the baddies assume the hunter does not bluff. *jumps up and down in irritation*

[Thinlómien]

Wait let me think. If Mira was evil, her mates would have wanted to lynch someone else too to make the game more even, unless all the other options were baddies too. If Mira was innocent, her mates would have wanted to... what? They could have advocated lynching someone else innocent to do better, or they could have advocated lynching Mira if their fellows were in danger. So Rikae may be right - knowing about Mira alone would not be that enlightening. Unless she turns out to be an aggressor, though, we may be able to read something from her behaviour. Ah, I don't know, this is difficult. I really doubt we will find out much by killing Annu again, or McCaber. Just somehow I think it won't lead to any information that is even half-concrete. There should be some more-dividing case that we could double-lynch someone and draw conclusions.

Originally Posted by Boro

I guess since I want to consider all options that makes me a cobbler?

*shrugs* Sometimes that's what cobblers do, sometimes that's what innocents do.

Originally Posted by Boro

I think knowing McCaber's role could be beneficial, considering Shasta and Nogrod were also in danger of being lynched. And in this set up, it would be less risk if mutineers wanted to protect other mutineers.

But it was Day1, and fair or not, people tend to prefer lynching people like McCab on Day1 rather than people like Nog or Shasta.

Originally Posted by Boro

You're asking yourself the wrong question which is why you're just confusing yourself. You're asking "Can Boro be manipulative and tricksy when he's evil?" Come on, we all know the answer to that, and that's why you don't feel safe trusting me.

Ask yourself...right now, at this moment, do you think based on the kill choices, the no kill, based on everything I have said, do you think I'm innocent? I expect only a yes or no back, no "yes but..." or "no but..." No thinking yourself into circles, just "yes" or "no."

Hahahaha, now I have a personal psychologist. But sadly my answer remains "yes, but" and you just have to accept it.

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh, and I'm not saying we need to double-kill today, I was just bringing up the possibility that since the wolves missed a chance yesterday, now we actually could take a chance to double-kill

Yes but now that they've missed it once we can "miss" ours at any point of the game just as well... but of course, who says we shouldn't take an advantage of being one step ahead of them in this game that is highly advantageous for them because of the mystery that surrounds everything?

Originally Posted by A Ghostly Green

First of all, a small thing, probably a mistake but I'd like it cleared just in case.

Eh?

Eh well I of course meant "goodie" not "baddie"...


edit: xed with all the three posts

[Nerwen]

I have to go now, so

++Gwath.

As usual, I'll try and be back before DL and may change my vote.

About double-lynching people: it's like this– we will have to eventually, because otherwise we're completely in the dark. However, every time we do, we're in effect giving the mutineers a free turn. I don't think we'll get more than a couple of shots at it, so we have to choose the time and the person very carefully.

EDIT:X'd with Lommy.

[Boromir88]

Sorry Nerwen I'm not exactly sure how bringing something up can be called "pushing" for something. I brought it up considering our fortune in no wolf killing...your point? Then Lommy asked why McCaber, so I answered...that's hardly pushing anything.

For what it's worth, as far as my opinions on Gwath. I'm usually more defensive towards him than 'offensive' because of similar histories...or an understanding. At one point, early on I was lynched 3 straight times on Day 1 (and I think 4 out of 5) for who knows what reasons? I couldn't tell you. Gwath had a similar run, I mean being unjustifiably lynched on Day 1 for random reasons...mostly done by the hand of Nogrod. I've usually been pretty defensive for his style, because he's been lynched a lot of times early for really no good reason.

Granted this has gotten me into trouble before, because one time I did declare him innocent and he winds up killing me during Night 2 as the bear, or wolf, or something.

But the fact is I didn't see any good reason for why he was in lynch trouble yesterday. I agreed with him, I mean he has to come back from not being on all day, read through the activity, and suddenly find himself a snowballing of suspicions. I've had the same "what the hell happened?" reaction, that doesn't mean he's a mutineer.

I defended someone...who cares? If he's a mutineer, I'm not one and I've been good...great job Gwath, see if you can do it next time. If he's innocent, I'm glad I've been defensive for him.

[Rikae]

Not sure why no wolf kill makes us fortunate, considering that we're still down one person (Wilwa) who was probably innocent (for the same reason as Mira).

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not sure why no wolf kill makes us fortunate, considering that we're still down one person (Wilwa) who was probably innocent (for the same reason as Mira).

Well we're not down another person...I'd call that fortunate.