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[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Farael

As to how Merry got the ponies, I think we also need to consider the duration of their "conspiracy". It wasn't an overnight deal, I have always been under the impression that it was over a year in the making. So if over time a wealthy young man takes an interest in ponies and buys a few more (I'd assume he owned at least a couple) it would not raise THAT many eyebrows

Nice points Farael, especially since it was no doubt widely known that Merry was arranging matters for Mr Baggins' well publicised relocation to Crickhollow. I think we can safely assume Merry would have had a pony or two at his disposal (he drove the cart and meets the walkers at the Ferry on horseback (of course that may have been the same pony but quite feasible that the son of the Master would have had a riding pony and a driving pony... ). But I am sure that noone would have batted an eyelid at him acquiring a few more for the use of Frodo and Pippin in the same way that someone moving out of town now may need to buy a car.

[Farael]

I was just reading a book I bought recently about the battle of Agincourt, and I found it rather remarkable that even the lesser nobility were "allowed" (read: paid for by the King) to take six horses each for the invasion, and often they took more on their own expense. Greater nobles took horses in their hundreds just for their own use. The members of their household took their allotted number of horses on top of that!

So, if both Merry and Pippin are sons of very influential nobility figures, it would only make sense that the Brandybucks and Tooks owned thousands of ponies among the head of the family and his principal relatives. All of a sudden, six ponies doesn't seem like that much, does it?

That is, assuming that medieval Europe (or at least England) was influential on how Tolkien imagined The Shire, which I believe is a safe bet.

[alatar]

I will buy that maybe, just maybe, the purchase of six ponies was (1) not considered too unusual, (2) not too costly for our small group of conspirators. As evidence I note that, upon learning that there are six ponies stabled across the field, Frodo doesn't exclaim, "My word! However did you come across so many, and where did you find the funds?"

That said, I will not buy that ponies were very ubiquitous. Some of the posts above had me envisioning vast grassy plains like those found in the old American West, where the buffalo roamed in herds in the millions - but in this case it would be ponies.

Where would one get the fodder for such a four-legged army? None of the inhabitants of Bag Hill were seen riding ponies. Frodo, when he considers whether to ride or to walk to Crickhollow, chooses to walk. Had he decided otherwise, he would have ridden *behind* a pony, not atop one. The few, if any ponies seem to be work animals and not part of the general transportation system.

And for a community to produce ponies in excess would put stress on the system, and obviously, of course, attract wolves (as we see later in FotR).

Not sure any of that is worth any silver pennies...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Frodo, when he considers whether to ride or to walk to Crickhollow, chooses to walk.

Frodo walked the walk and talked the talk.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Frodo walked the walk and talked the talk.

Excellent! Consider yourself repped (as I cannot promise I won't forget to do so).

But note that Frodo rode not the road, and so the herd heard not.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

But note that Frodo rode not the road, and so the herd heard not.

All this repetition certainly has a Ring to it.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

That said, I will not buy that ponies were very ubiquitous. Some of the posts above had me envisioning vast grassy plains like those found in the old American West, where the buffalo roamed in herds in the millions - but in this case it would be ponies.

Where would one get the fodder for such a four-legged army? None of the inhabitants of Bag Hill were seen riding ponies. Frodo, when he considers whether to ride or to walk to Crickhollow, chooses to walk. Had he decided otherwise, he would have ridden *behind* a pony, not atop one. The few, if any ponies seem to be work animals and not part of the general transportation system.


Not sure any of that is worth any silver pennies...

We do not see many things that nevertheless must have existed... unless you believe that the female population of ME was about six .

There are several parts of the British Isles where even in these latter days ponies roaming free are ubiquitous ..where I live, for example, has these little chaps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest_pony

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

We do not see many things that nevertheless must have existed... unless you believe that the female population of ME was about six .

That could be about right...

But, though I'm sure that one couldn't take a step without bumping into the diminutive horses, what did they do besides munch grass and dream of Rivendell?

Peter Jackson, that well-renowned Tolkien scholar, only has ponies in the end when the four come back to the Shire. Need I say more?

There are several parts of the British Isles where even in these latter days ponies roaming free are ubiquitous ..where I live, for example, has these little chaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest_pony

Can you send some over?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

Where would one get the fodder for such a four-legged army? None of the inhabitants of Bag Hill were seen riding ponies. Frodo, when he considers whether to ride or to walk to Crickhollow, chooses to walk. Had he decided otherwise, he would have ridden *behind* a pony, not atop one. The few, if any ponies seem to be work animals and not part of the general transportation system.

Hobbiton seems to have been a fairly large settlement by hobbit standards, and I would posit that many of the things villagers would need for daily living would have been available nearby, doing away with the need for everyone to have their own riding ponies. One or two farms in the area to supply the animals when someone needed to travel into other parts of the Shire should have been sufficient. When one gets to more remote parts of the country we start seeing private owners such as Farmer Maggot, who kept at least two.
And Frodo's reasons for walking were for pleasure, and a last look at his home before going off into unknown dangers. I think I would have done the same.

Originally Posted by alatar

And for a community to produce ponies in excess would put stress on the system, and obviously, of course, attract wolves (as we see later in FotR).

Well, hobbits apparently had no lack of food under ordinary circumstances, and if they had sufficient arable land for the growing of crops, I see no reason they would have lacked land for grazing and ranching. As a matter of fact, grazing animals can have, shall we say, a fertilizing effect on cropland can't they?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by alatar

That said, I will not buy that ponies were very ubiquitous.

Ah, but I thought that a medieval England example would be applicable! Furthermore, owning a horse does not mean that you keep it in your backyard! My girlfriend owns a horse and she (the horse) is in a barn with other horses owned by other people. Who's to say there weren't large horse farms?

To answer further concerns, I've always imagined Hobbiton and Buckland as cities after a fashion. Sure, they weren't cities by our current definition but they were more densely populated than the countryside. So, while moving around these places hobbits would not have a great need for a pony. Furthermore, people who did not travel much (or only travelled for fun, like Frodo) would have no need to own a pony!

That, however, is not to say that ponies were not readily available. It just means that they were not consistenly used by cityfolk.