TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by morm

You seem awfully ready to attack the plan Durelin, why?

Because I find you suspicious for your suggestion of it, and would like to see you defend it in order to get a better feel for you.

And why am I attacking you rather vehemently? Because you suggested that the only reason anyone here disagrees with you is because we're not as intelligent as the phantom.

Shocked?

[Nerwen]

...seoreh nellaf owT .esruoc fo ,mroN dnA ?atsahS tuoba das ti t'nsI !egalliv ,olleH

Originally Posted by mormegil

You can't be certain Durelin, but assume for a moment I am not a wolf, would I be a likely wolf target?

Yes, but only one of several.

Originally Posted by mormegil

You seem awfully ready to attack the plan Durelin, why? Just because I propose for the gifteds to possibly reveal themselves doesn't mean it's going to happen, it's to give the idea and see what happens.

Why are you still arguing this point, Morm? They can't reveal at the same time, remember? It doesn't matter whether your plan is good, bad, or indifferent– we can't do it.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, but only one of several.

Think of it this way Nerwen, out of the few most likely wolf targets, who is also most likely to have been protected? I am 90% certain it was me but because I open my yapper and give a plan all attention is diverted to the plan. For that reason (all the attention to the plan and not on finding baddies) I regret presenting it.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Because I find you suspicious for your suggestion of it, and would like to see you defend it in order to get a better feel for you.

And why am I attacking you rather vehemently? Because you suggested that the only reason anyone here disagrees with you is because we're not as intelligent as the phantom.

Shocked?

So that's the real issue then? You felt I insulted your intelligence. I can assure you it was not meant as such. I meant more that this scheme would be to his liking and tactics. Not that he's more intelligent and therefore would understand it.

Nerwen, they can't both revel themselves? Huh, that's odd because I think I've mentioned that I realize that now. *sigh*

This is the problem with proposing any plan, somebody puts himself out there and tries to help out and it backfires nearly every time. Everybody jumps up and down pointing a finger..."Hey he said we should do something that I don't agree with he must be evil....KILL HIM!!!" Good mob mentality at work and all the while the real baddies are slipping through cracks and I'm forced to defend and redefend my position.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by morm

So that's the real issue then?

No, that's the reason for some bitterness behind my attacking you.

I'm the only one who has so far suggested you are evil, other than Sally (but what's new there)...don't act so victimized already.

[Durelin]

Well, okay...Nerwen did vote for you yesterDay...

Sally and Nerwen don't count.

[mormegil]

In looking over the voting it is important to note that Durelin was the last to vote for Alona, my gut tells me these wolves aren't overly brazen and wouldn't go for that approach. I continue to think Durelin innocent of being a wolf.

Nerwen, Nienna, Mira and Sally (less on Sally) really poured on the votes for me at the end...disclaimer, I can't remember when Mira voted I think it was before Nienna and Nerwen. Anyway those are two suspects who seem to have wanted to save their compatriot. However, as I've brought up and others too Nerwen fits the bill for the cobbler.

I cannot remember Nienna voicing any major suspicion of me yesterday. Perhaps I'll go back and check but not now as it is bed time. If Nienna is innocent and how no strong suspicions of me why would she vote for me to possibly save Alona? The only reason is she felt Alona was very innocent, which is hard to believe. Otherwise a guilty Nienna could very easily have wanted to save her pack mate and saw that I was the most likely target other than Alona and went for me.

Again, I hope to review and see if she had any major suspicion of me but if any of you Europeans have time to do it while I sleep it would be great.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

In a way I'm glad I retracted and 'changed' the outcome of the vote, because Alona's dead and we're down a wolf.

What the-? Didn't you retract and then vote Morm again?

Originally Posted by Durelin

No, that's the reason for some bitterness behind my attacking you.

I'm the only one who has so far suggested you are evil, other than Sally (but what's new there)...don't act so victimized already.

The only one? Morm nearly got the chop yesterDay– I reckon he's got something to feel victimised about. On the other hand, that edginess was there all yesterDay too– it's mainly why I voted him.

It now seems unlikely he's a wolf, though.

[Thinlómien]

I still don't get why morm is so confident he was attacked last Night. You can't know stuff like that, and if I had to start naming probable wolf kills, morm wouldn't even be in my top five. And even if he was protected last NIght, it doesn't make him innocent - he could still be the bear. So I don't see why anybody should believe any part of morm's claim.

I'm sorry to see Shasta go. Not only because he didn't get to play much, but obviously also because he was the ranger. With both the seer and the ranger gone, our future looks quite gloomy. We really had better keep lynching baddies.

Speaking of which, I'm glad you ended up lynching Alona. (If Form is the bear, that would've been better but good anyway. ) I think I'll go through Alona's posts and possibly even what people have said about her - if I have time - it could be useful.

Originally Posted by morm

Did Lommy vote?

Yes, it is even in the vote table you posted. I voted Form.

Now I'm to comment what happened yesterDay after I went to sleep and then I will have at least some sort of look at Alona.


xed with Nerwen

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I was under the impression Form always explains himself, among other things, a lot. Explaining is a favorite past-time of many people I know, and I am at least under the impression that he is one of them.

Well yes, he tends to explain a lot and I was silly not to think of that, but I still think he's sort of trying to excuse himself too much in this game to look completely honest.

Originally Posted by Durelin

All anyone seems to have to offer is that a bear likes to talk about his/herself, which I don't buy.

I never said that - I said Form's manner of speaking about the bear is suspicious, not the fact that he speaks about the bear (a lot).

And now I know why Shasta seemed so suspiciously edgy... it crossed my mind at some point he might be gifted but I decided he looks far more like a wolf... Well, I'm glad I/we didn't manage to get him lynched.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Rikae can you clarify creepy for me... I'd like to respond but yet find I don't know how to respond as I don't know what creepy means...

I'm not to sure what to make of this comment, because normally people just ignore such vague yet clearly enough phrased suspicions and let them be. Nienna, however, wanted an explanation to be able to defend herself and half of me says that's a sign of guilt, and the other half that it's a sign of innocence... go figure.

Originally Posted by Nienna

A baddie-Sally doesn't tend to overly state that she is innocent. She tends to imply her innocence without saying it out-right. I may be wrong with this but it is what I have noticed. So I trust her for the moment.

I had forgotten that, but now I remember - that's true. I recall one game where a wolf-Sally made a fake seer-reveal without directly saying she's the seer. So if she indeed has claimed innocence loudly (haven't noticed that, though) I'd be more inclined to believe her innocent than guilty.

Originally Posted by Form

We're playing Werewolf, of all things, and you think I'm being too analytical? I'm not saying I couldn't be the bear speculating out loud about my own strategies as the bear to misdirect people... but, at the same time, in a game that basically thrives on analysis and reading-into... you're going to convict me on that? Haven't you ever played with Nogrod? (*is being rhetorical... I know the answer)

There's nothing bad in being analytical per se, but as an experienced werewolf player you should probably know that many wolves have been caught because they have explained the Night kills so smartly and effortlessly (straight from their Nightly PMs) or have managed to give the impression they think (a lot) from the wolves' prespective. I'm not saying going inside a baddie's mind and speculating stuff is bad - on the contrary - but sometimes it looks so authentical it gives off bad vibes, often for a reason. And that's why I suspect you.

Originally Posted by Form

Really, anyone who appears suspicious during the Day is more likely to be a Wolf, because they're covering for other people that cripples how they can play. A Bear, on the other hand, has goals like a Wolf, but can play more like an Ordo.

You're right, and that's why I wouldn't advise going just bear-hunting. But if I see someone who looks like a bear I rather vote him than someone who looks like a wolf.

Originally Posted by Nessa

Well, I have no idea where my vote should go. It would be Alona, but I'll be sleeping at deadline, and I am loathe to vote someone who has no chance to defend themselves. Sooo.....
++no vote

This is really worth looking at now that we know Alona was a wolf. It seems very very suspicious. But it's rather puzzling too - why didn't she vote Form whom she said she suspected earlier (she was wondering whether to vote him or Alona)? Is it possible we're dealing with a Nessa-Form-Alona trio?

Originally Posted by autume about morm

Although I'm guessing he probably wouldn't suspect Rikae if they were both wolves in the same game.

Why not? (Not that they seem like mates, but that argument looks rather questionable.)

I think Rikae's case againt me makes her look more innocent, because when I was reading it I was thinking "hey, what? that woman makes everything I do look darn suspicious, aha, she plans to attack me based on this" and then was really surprised to see her conclusion as "60% innocent". If she was a wolf, she'd probably just exaggerate the case a bit (more) and say I must be guilty. She could still be the bear, anyway...

Originally Posted by Rikae

Thinks the bear may have killed Hakon because xe thought he was the cobbler
(I'm not sure why the bear would be after the cobbler...?)

Maybe because the cobbler helps the wolves, who are the bear's enemies, and the bear doesn't profit anything from having a cobbler around (unlike from having wolves around).

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mac has a double standard
(presumably for calling Mira on her slip? What else should he do - let a wolvish slip go, and a wolf go free?

I don't think it was very wolvish after all.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Will vote for me if Sally/autume/Alona all innocent (! Why would that make sense from an innocent Lommie's perspective?)

Why wouldn't it? As a wolf, you'd be very crafty to make a random group of three innocent people and say "there must be one wolf here" because then you can basically get them all lynched (if you're good and lucky" by insiting "the first one wasn't so it must be some of the others" and "oh, the second one wasn't either, let's lynch the third one, ok?" and then apologise humbly when you turn out to be wrong.

Originally Posted by morm

I was glad to see Lommy jump on so quickly.

Jump on it? I have been suspecting Form of bear-ery since early Day2 and I was considering voting him all along! And "so quickly"? Maybe, but it was something around 1am and I needed to vote before going to sleep.

Originally Posted by morm

Yes but something is with Lommy. She is not being her usual self who goes after people with purpose, putting herself out in the open. She is not being bold at all and that concerns me greatly.

Not bold at all? What was saving another player at the last minute with no knowledge on their role? I didn't suspect Inziladun much more than Alona, but decided to act on it anyway. I think that's pretty bold, given that it didn't matter to me personally which one of them died and could just as well been accidentally saving a baddie (like it turned out to be).

Originally Posted by Form

This is true... but it occurs to me that this might just be case of not being properly immersed in the game--she missed all of Day 1 and its 14 pages, and so might not have acclimatised properly.

If you want to, you can excuse my Day2 behaviour by that, but not stuff from yesterDay or toDay.

Originally Posted by Rikae

No one expects the Mormish inquisition!

This totally made me crack up.