Trade and traderoutes in M-E

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Would the occasional party of Dwarves passing through the Shire really constitute a trade presence? Looks to me more likely the Dwarves only bought whatever provisions they needed for their journeys, as the Shire and Bree didn't seem to have much need or want for what the Dwarves could offer in trade: arms, armour, and precious stones.

Yep, but I agree with Tuor on that at least some basic trade would go on between the people of the Shire and the Dwarves of Blue Mountains (and later also those in the East). Raw iron, for instance, if nothing else, in exchange for maybe some food and pipeweed. The Dwarves did smoke, after all. I also wonder about the rather sophisticated items such as Bilbo's clock, which the Hobbits would certainly not be able of making. A few specialities for the rich Hobbits would come handy, and so even some small trade in these classes probably existed.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Yep, but I agree with Tuor on that at least some basic trade would go on between the people of the Shire and the Dwarves of Blue Mountains (and later also those in the East). Raw iron, for instance, if nothing else, in exchange for maybe some food and pipeweed. The Dwarves did smoke, after all. I also wonder about the rather sophisticated items such as Bilbo's clock, which the Hobbits would certainly not be able of making.

Somehow I just never pictured Dwarves as making things like clocks. Thranduil's Elves, on the other hand....well, I can imagine Mirkwood Forest Cuckoo Clocks being all the rage in Dale.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Somehow I just never pictured Dwarves as making things like clocks. Thranduil's Elves, on the other hand....well, I can imagine Mirkwood Forest Cuckoo Clocks being all the rage in Dale.

Wood Elves? No way. They could not even make a wok pan, the more something as complicated as clock. I agree that clock feels a bit too fine on first sight, but then, Dwarves were the master craftsmen, and their honed gems were a work of fine art, for one. Nay, the Dwarves were the ones making the clock... only by the time the West-East route was reestablished, they began to import cuckoos from Mirkwood into their clock, but that's all

[Tuor in Gondolin]

It wouldn't be at all surprising that dwarves were the Swiss
of Middle-earth in clockmaking.

Kings used to snd for our smiths, and reward even the
least skillful most richly. Fathers would beg us to take their sons as
apprentices, and pay us handsomely, especially in food-supplies...
the poorest of us had money to spend and to lend, and leisure to make
beautiful things just for the fun of it, not to speak of the most
marvellous and magical toys, the like of which is not to be found in the
world now-a-days...and the toy market of Dale was the wonder of the
North.

Of course, it also brings to mind Harry Lime's observation about cuckoo
clocks and the Swiss:

"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Wood Elves? No way. They could not even make a wok pan, the more something as complicated as clock. I agree that clock feels a bit too fine on first sight, but then, Dwarves were the master craftsmen, and their honed gems were a work of fine art, for one. Nay, the Dwarves were the ones making the clock... only by the time the West-East route was reestablished, they began to import cuckoos from Mirkwood into their clock, but that's all

The bit about the Mirkwood Elves was tongue-in-cheek: a reference to Bored of the Rings.
I still wonder about the Dwarves trading much with hobbits.

'And look at the outlandish folk that visit [Bilbo]: dwarves coming at night, and that old wandering conjuror Gandalf, and all.'

An odd-looking waggon laden with odd-looking packages rolled into Hobbiton one evening. The startled hobbits peered out of lamplit doors to gape at it. It was driven by outlandish folk, singing strange songs: dwarves with long beards and deep hoods.

FOTR A Long-Expected Party

If hobbits were accustomed to trade with dwarves, why were they 'startled', and thinking the dwarves 'outlandish'?

'[Bilbo] was already growing a bit queer, they said, and went off for days by himself. He could be seen talking to strangers, even Dwarves.'

UT The Quest of Erebor

'Even Dwarves'? Hobbits don't seem to have thought much of Dwarves; just odd people who used the Road through the Shire.
In fact, the Shire-folk seemed extremely insular, regarding even distant relatives living in Bree with distrust.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If hobbits were accustomed to trade with dwarves, why were they 'startled', and thinking the dwarves 'outlandish'?

You just say it yourself:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In fact, the Shire-folk seemed extremely insular, regarding even distant relatives living in Bree with distrust.

That's it. For the Hobbits, anybody from the outside was queer. Hey, even farmer Maggot was queer for people from Hobbitton, and vice versa! I think just a person who had regular contact with Dwarves, like Bilbo, would be considered weird - but there had to be some trade between the Dwarves and Hobbits, it may not have been anything long-time established, but just those guys who would journey through the Shire would sell their goods, and there will be a few "a bit queer" Hobbits having long-time trade relations with the Dwarves, and those would make their goods available further in the Shire.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That's it. For the Hobbits, anybody from the outside was queer. Hey, even farmer Maggot was queer for people from Hobbitton, and vice versa! I think just a person who had regular contact with Dwarves, like Bilbo, would be considered weird - but there had to be some trade between the Dwarves and Hobbits, it may not have been anything long-time established, but just those guys who would journey through the Shire would sell their goods, and there will be a few "a bit queer" Hobbits having long-time trade relations with the Dwarves, and those would make their goods available further in the Shire.

Exactly. I would assume that it's mostly the old and rich families, like the Tooks and Brandybucks, who had such things. Maybe from days in the past, when the Shire was more open with the rest of the world, as well as at that time, when such families were known to do very weird things (for Hobbiton folk at least).