Tol-in-Gaurhoth Threefold and Six: The Night Guard

[Nogrod]

I think I may be able to answer to you both Pitch and Greenie... Just a moment. Your points do converge even if they come from quite different angles.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Why am I bothered with Legate?

Well first he went forcibly against "the plan" basing it on a ridiculous idea that the ranger would have to reveal her/himself for us to execute it and putting her/himself on danger as well - thus making it look like a very dangerous plan for the innocents. He's intelligent enough to understand there is no reason for the ranger to reveal her/himself. That's not a difference of opinion.

Secondly he continued that same thing in his next post still. But soon he turned his wheels saying it would be "unfair" towards the wolves to use the plan...

I just don't trust him right now. It looks like he was trying to shoot the idea down in the earlier hours on the basis of it being too dangerous for the innocents but then went on opposing the idea on totally the opposite point of view eg. saying it would be too easy a win for the innocents...

And anyway that plan would be neither. It has its' risks and its' advantages. And no one can know beforehand what would happen if we sticked to it.

And what comes to Boro asking about this "protect Legate" bandwagon, I must say I'm as much at loss with it as you are, but could jump on it to save one of us the next Night with one wolf not able to kill...

I mean that indirect knowledge toMorrow might be valuable indeed as I'm not sure I'd be ready to call for lynching Legate for these grounds even if I do suspect him at the moment.

Or it might even be direct knowledge!

If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...

See? I am in fact useful sometimes!


That's the part I forgot to mention actually, though I'm sure you all realized it already. If we do at some point guard a suspect (and there are four wolves) if there are still two kills we know that person is innocent. So really it's like we've got an extra seer dream (sort of) every Night until we kill a wolf. Shiny, yes?

[Nogrod]

That was an interesting thought indeed!

So as long as we have four wolves and two possible Night-kills and we manage to protect an innocent ending up with two kills performed during the Night, we know the one we protected as a village is innocent. If the seer doesn't come out that makes it easier for the ranger to spot the right people to protect the next Night (and us not to lynch on the next Day) - and in a sense the mechanics work like us as a community working as seers together.

So with no further babbling...

++ guard Legate

EDIT: X'd from Sally on... and agreeing with her as is obvious.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

So with no further babbling...

++ guard Legate

Haha, so the one so baffled by the guard Legate -bandwagon jumps in! (Sorry, I know you had a reason and all, just amuses me still.)

So, I'll be off to bed now and leave the computer to Lommy, I'll answer to you toMorrow friend Noggins if we both are still alive.

++ Nogrod

++ Guard Nienna

That latter because she is sensible and sharp but hasn't talked much - therefore, she'd make a classic Night 1 kill. I don't want to see her go yet as I have a good vibe about her. Besides, she has already been voted so it's not throwing away my guard vote completely.

[Nogrod]

I'm not happy with this Kit bandwagon... It looks like an easy way out with nothing actual to support it. I hope to have time to look back on it to say something about it on top of pure feeling...

Hehe Greenie... you're either too trigger-happy or evil... But as I saw no point in your vote but the annoyance of someone whose mates have been revealed (and seasoning it with that "friend Noggins" which I find the most suspicious) I will consider the latter the more probable...

A list of my thoughts on people to follow soon.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm not happy with this Kit bandwagon... It looks like an easy way out with nothing actual to support it. I hope to have time to look back on it to say something about it on top of pure feeling...

Hehe Greenie... you're either too trigger-happy or evil... But as I saw no point in your vote but the annoyance of someone whose mates have been revealed (and seasoning it with that "friend Noggins" which I find the most suspicious) I will consider the latter the more probable...

A list of my thoughts on people to follow soon.

Same here, to an extent. I think she may be guilty but it seems....almost too easy, or rather too....oh, heck if I know.


My top suspects are still Wilwa and Kit. I hate Day Ones. *goes to cuddle with Formie until the Day is over*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Huh, okay. Quick sum, hope not to x-post with too many, and then some votes. Ha, great, right upon DL. And that's something about going to sleep early...

Originally Posted by Nienna

I think that Pitchwife brought an interesting point about guarding someone who might be a quiet wolf. I think that it might actually be a good idea and something to think about for toDay. Since it is quite hard to make any suspicions or to know enough about someone to trust them toDay we could guard someone in the hopes of getting a quiet wolf. We can and should use guarding to actually guard someone during the Night after toDay but I think that using it to try and give us some more information for toMorrow might be a good idea. Just a thought.

Edit: x-ed since 89

I liked this post and noting that down that Nienna is speaking sensibly and I put her more into the "good feeling" part of my list.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, I don't like that "So...?" in the end. It looks evil. But really, it does! The sort of "I'm just dropping this idea and letting you others continue the thought, so I can't be blamed for bringing up the argument, he-he-hee." (Oh, too bad, now I'm actually imagining him behind his computer saying "he-he-hee" in a devilish voice and the image makes me giggle. I'm evidently too tired for werewolf.)

For some reason, I was thinking the same. Actually Mr. Nog's absolutely heedless pursuit of little me makes me a bit uncomfortable, now if he's the one to speak of not-very-well-thought-through behavior of others while he's doing such things himself. He's not acting like Thomas Aquineus, from whom he apparently copies his way of placing arguments, but a bit more like the Grand Inquisitor. Shouldn't you take a deep breath, Nog?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Ah well, the mid-day chats are something of a speciality of mine - as I'm someone who rather discusses with people than makes long and substantial posts by herself, and I'm often around near mid-day (my time) when there is seldom any discussion going on, I like grasping whoever there is and discuss matters with them. This time it happened to be Nilp, so I asked him about that suicidal vote. But, like I found out, it wasn't much use. But just to clarify, when I want to have a mid-day chat with someone I'm often after a rather more serious contribution than some random chit-chat (like the one I ended up having with Nilp. But really, how can one have a serious discussion with that one?)

Okay, that clears it up for me.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Legate, when you come back, would you mind explaining the reasoning behind your Guarding suggestions (Nerwen and Lommy)? I agree that Nerwen's been rather reasonable in her few posts, Lommy slightly less so from my perspective; I certainly don't grudge either of them the protection, but what exactly makes them stand out from others who have talked as much? (Not meaning myself - I'm just an ordo, no use Guarding me.)

Sure. My points were just that Nerwen looks innocent to me. All her posts were helpful, logical, she didn't say much, but all she said made sense and seemed to be genuine. With Lommy, I already said that I could basically agree with what she said and I also had a good feeling from that, similarly as with Nerwen. So when choosing whom to guard, I was thinking of these two. And I was considering that maybe Lommy would be better just because of the fact that I thought there's a larger chance that she can be a Wolf (an unsuspicious one) than Nerwen, thus, I had two reasons to guard her (if you put it like that). But of course I don't really suspect any of them - it's just that IF one of them was fooling me now, Lommy seemed more possible to me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I might join this "guard Legate" bandwagon just to remove one kill from the coming Night... or then saving a misguided innocent who'd try a bit better toMorrow (or later toDay).

Now that was really rude.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I don't have the time toDay to read everything I've missed. But my guard vote won't be totally random. I was going to vote to guard Mnemo, but since she stirred up a lot of discussion she doesn't seem a likely Night 2 kill. Rather I'd like to guard one of those who haven't spoken yet. These sorts are usually kills early on because they leave no trail for the villagers. So that leaves Hakon and alonariel as the only two who have yet to say anything.

++Guard Hakon

alonariel gave a reason for being absent, but Hakon has said nothing.

Okay, now this is one thing I don't completely see - what reason do you actually have to guard Hakon? It's a totally throwaway thing, and I can't see any reason to do it except for trying to be fair to somebody who's not around. That's of course nice thing to do, to be fair and protect such a possible victim (with this I agree with you, that wolves often pick those people). But then, really people seldom act so "fairly" just for the fairness itself, so that's why I am asking if you have other reasons beyond that? (Maybe I should trust in nice motives, but for some reason I think it's not generally like that in WW, and not even from you, but maybe I am mistaken.)

Originally Posted by McCaber

Although we shouldn't be hasty to lynch someone we protected if there's only one kill. That seems to be a very easy way for the pack to manipulate the village. Granted, it would only work one time at most, but it could still backfire horribly.

That's very, very good point - makes me think good of McC - but of course (and I see that's been mentioned also), there is this fact that if there ARE two kills, we get a known innocent. (Who, though, btw, cannot be Night Guarded the Night after, so he's as good as dead soon - or maybe not? Because the Ranger can protect him, which of course is likely, unless he has some better person to protect.)

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I have about seven minutes to get back to work.

I've been mulling over the thread, trying to find something/someone who jumps out.

Mnemo and Wilwa both jumped out initially, but neither one feels particularly wicked. Of other, more vocal players, no one has said anything of note that I find over whelming suspicious. The only things I've seen that worried me are Mnemo's vote for Wilwa, but I think that's probably a time constraint thing, and then there's Brinn's vote for McCaber. She stated her vote would be somewhat random, but it surprises me she would pick someone who hadn't yet posted.

But I'm down to the wire and have to vote now. I will be more active on Day 2 because work doesn't fall on the deadline that day.

++Brinn

Kinda random, I don't care that she voted randomly for McCaber. That's something I would do, but she gave a reason that "he wasn't contributing" and that doesn't seem right to me. Granted my own reasons for voting Brinn aren't much better. However, I am at a loss for a real suspect.

Okay, but that actually WAS Brinn's point, to vote somebody who hasn't been around yet? Anyway, this is just plain wrong, I have a bad feeling about this, because it happens with Brinn all the time and she gets lynched for that. I am not accusing Kit because of that, but I am certainly not going to join that. (Why would I anyway. Btw I find Brinn quite good right now.)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Okay, I finally managed to kick Legate out of the house and Greenie away from the computer , so I'm here and I'll be reading now. Don't expect much of me, I'm probably going to manage to post once and vote before the DL! More activity toMorrow then...

Okay, that was a bit rude but whatever. Now let's see how much I have x-ed with and then quickly vote!

[Nogrod]

Here's the list of people I have even some vague feelings of...

Suspicious (funny but I seem to suspect the most the people I know the best from the RL):
Legate of Amon Lanc - I have already made the points on him but would not like to lynch him but rather check him by protecting him as a village toNight. As innocent he could be an asset even if for a short time.
Thinlómien - This I argued as well already albeit I'm waiting for her to post again as she promised and that might change things...
A Little Green - Too much rhetorics and decision based a bit too purposefully suiting the rhetorics given. I might consider voting her unless better ideas come forwards (a better idea being for example someone who really tries to hunker down and not saying anything to be safe)

Innocentish:
Mnemosyne - For starting the discussion on the "plan" and not giving in with it even if many people suspected her for it. My only fear is that I agree with her too much so far...
Pitchwife - Making really good points thus far and feeling like thinking about the matters from the innocent perspective...
Brinniel - The first to say it out aloud that the "plan" might be dangerous to us innocents. Looks very good indeed in comparison to some others opposing the plan...
Boromir88 - Speaks sense and the attitude looks more like that of an innocent than that of a wolf.
Shastanis Althreduin - Believe it or not, but with only one post I thought it was reasonable enough to gain trust at least for Day1...

Confused about:
satansaloser2005 - So involved it almost makes me think she's a wolf but not nervous as I remember her to be when being one... So she has learned the trade or is actually just having time?
wilwarin538 - playful and active in the beginning... hard to say, as it's hard to say why so many suspect her as easily...
Kitanna - I see where the general suspicions are coming from but am afraid it might be one of those Day1 unhappy bandwagons where insecure people vote for the one everyone else seems to suspect.
Nilpaurion Felagund - Well, what can you say about a suicidal maniac? But then again he made a few good points as well.

No actual feeling thus far (eg. my top candidates? )
Inziladun
alonariel
Hakon
Nienna
Nerwen
Nessa Telrunya
McCaber


I really can't say right now. And that's what I fear with these people. I need to try and check back to form an opinion...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A Little Green - Too much rhetorics and decision based a bit too purposefully suiting the rhetorics given. I might consider voting her unless better ideas come forwards (a better idea being for example someone who really tries to hunker down and not saying anything to be safe)

Okay, actually of all your prime suspects (well, of course ) I find this somewhat reflecting mine. Somewhat. I am a tiny little bit uneasy from Greenie, but what made me say it aloud is actually this, as I have been thinking whether there cannot be some wolf-on-wolf suspicion here. You know, if both of you are wolves, you could do this, just putting your mate into a nice list. I am saying that because it sort of echoes what I thought in the first place at some Greenie's words about you: that it looks maybe a tiny bit like a wolf-on-wolf suspicion.

No actual feeling thus far (eg. my top candidates? )

Are you sure you don't mean i.e.?