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Old 09-13-2009, 08:46 PM   #1
CSteefel
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Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron View Post

- Gandalf released Shadowfax in Eriador two months before the Company left Rivendell, but Eomer told Aragorn that the horse had returned to Rohan only 7 days before they met in the Wold.
Shadowfax presumably took his time, and there was no reason for him to return to Rohan except for the purposes of meeting Gandalf. That is about when Gandalf made his way into that region.
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- Denethor and Saruman both encountered Sauron using their respective Palantir. Yet Denethor was not dominated and Saruman was. Surely it should have been the other way round ?
Paradoxically it seems, Denethor was the man with the superior will power. Perhaps also the right to use the Palantir was part of it as well.
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- What was the point of Eowyn dressing up as Dernhelm ? Surely the sight of a hobbit sitting on her horse with her would have given her away anyway ? Same goes for the scene in the film before the Riders charge at the Pelennor.
My understanding was that he hid under her cloak, although clearly some knew they were there.
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- If Gwaihir could fly to Mount Doom in a matter of minutes, why not just give him the Ring and ask him to fly down there and drop it in the volcano ?
See comments in the recent thread on Eagles. My interpretation is that the Eagles in fact are the agents of Eru and they were prohibited from intervening directly in the destruction of the Ring. Otherwise, as you said, a lightning strike into Mordor and Mount Doom could have taken care of it.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:22 AM   #2
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On the door to Moria, Moria is referred to as Moria, even though it was never given that name until Durin's Bane was awakened. Huh?
It didn't necessarily say Moria on the actual door however.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:45 AM   #3
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It didn't necessarily say Moria on the actual door however.
I've wondered about that. Gandalf's use of 'Moria' could have just been an instance of his using the name most recognized by people at that point in time. Not being exceptionally keen where Elvish writing is concerned, I wonder if 'Moria' was the name shown in the illustration of the Doors as written by Celebrimbor.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:47 AM   #4
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It didn't necessarily say Moria on the actual door however.
It does on Tolkien's drawing of the door in LotR: Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Following the translator conceit, this would be a copy of a drawing in the original Red Book, done by somebody who had seen the door (Frodo or Sam, presumably). That's as close to the actual door as it gets.
It probably should have been Ennyn Durin Aran Hadhodrond, with the Sindarin translation of Khazad-dűm which the Elves used before it was renamed Moria (see Silmarillion index); but apparently Tolkien hadn't invented that name at the time of writing LotR.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:20 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Inziladun
I've wondered about that. Gandalf's use of 'Moria' could have just been an instance of his using the name most recognized by people at that point in time.
I agree. The picture in the books is a 'close enough' visual representation of the doors, not the actual doors of course.

The writing in the picture also need not reflect what is on the actual doors, since there are two exterior Dwarvish names in the writing, which must be due to the modern translator (Durin, Narvi).
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:36 AM   #6
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Galin, you're right about the writing, of course. I'd completely neglected that Durin and Narvi (from the Völuspa) were not their 'actual' Mannish names - so we don't have a copy of the Red Book drawing, but a 'translation drawing', so to speak (as with Balin's epitaph).
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:58 AM   #7
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We might suggest something similar with respect to some of the runes in The Hobbit too -- considered to 'really' represent internal runes. This is noted in Tolkien's Legendarium (in an essay about runes by Arden Smith), as one possible explanation:

Quote:
'This is supported by Tolkien's statement in the foreword to the 1966 third edition of The Hobbit: '[The Dwarves] runes are in this book represented by English runes'
As for Gimli's remark -- Tolkien didn't forget about Parth Galen, Gimli did
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CSteefel View Post

My understanding was that he hid under her cloak, although clearly some knew they were there.

.
They were helped by the general darkness and "devil's mirk" though it is quite clear that Elfhelm was in on it and his men knew not to draw attention to the stow aways. Elfhelm is one of my favourite minor characters and you can only imagine those unwritten scenes when Eowyn persuaded him to play along and when Eomer discovered the answer to his question "Eowyn!, how came you here?".
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:06 PM   #9
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Tolkien's inconsistencies are usually attributible to his incessant dawdling with the story. He writes, then rewrites, edits the rewrites and then writes the whole thing over again. Some of the old material remains with the rewritten material, and over time there are strata of story molded into a coherent whole. It's rather like the whole process of oral mythology eventually conglomerating into printed form, except writ small by a single author over decades, when the usal process takes centuries.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
Tolkien's inconsistencies are usually attributible to his incessant dawdling with the story. He writes, then rewrites, edits the rewrites and then writes the whole thing over again. Some of the old material remains with the rewritten material, and over time there are strata of story molded into a coherent whole. It's rather like the whole process of oral mythology eventually conglomerating into printed form, except writ small by a single author over decades, when the usal process takes centuries.
That's probably true, just as the 'real' reason we don't see the Eagles flying Frodo to the Fire is that they were a plot device that Tolkien had stretched (with full awareness) to its limit. Still, looking for in-universe explanations is a fun exercise.
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