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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#1 | |||
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Wight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 204
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See comments in the recent thread on Eagles. My interpretation is that the Eagles in fact are the agents of Eru and they were prohibited from intervening directly in the destruction of the Ring. Otherwise, as you said, a lightning strike into Mordor and Mount Doom could have taken care of it.
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`These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.' |
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#2 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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#3 |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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I've wondered about that. Gandalf's use of 'Moria' could have just been an instance of his using the name most recognized by people at that point in time. Not being exceptionally keen where Elvish writing is concerned, I wonder if 'Moria' was the name shown in the illustration of the Doors as written by Celebrimbor.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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It does on Tolkien's drawing of the door in LotR: Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Following the translator conceit, this would be a copy of a drawing in the original Red Book, done by somebody who had seen the door (Frodo or Sam, presumably). That's as close to the actual door as it gets.
It probably should have been Ennyn Durin Aran Hadhodrond, with the Sindarin translation of Khazad-dűm which the Elves used before it was renamed Moria (see Silmarillion index); but apparently Tolkien hadn't invented that name at the time of writing LotR.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#5 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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The writing in the picture also need not reflect what is on the actual doors, since there are two exterior Dwarvish names in the writing, which must be due to the modern translator (Durin, Narvi). |
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#6 |
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Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Galin, you're right about the writing, of course. I'd completely neglected that Durin and Narvi (from the Völuspa) were not their 'actual' Mannish names - so we don't have a copy of the Red Book drawing, but a 'translation drawing', so to speak (as with Balin's epitaph).
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#7 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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We might suggest something similar with respect to some of the runes in The Hobbit too -- considered to 'really' represent internal runes. This is noted in Tolkien's Legendarium (in an essay about runes by Arden Smith), as one possible explanation:
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#8 |
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Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,463
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They were helped by the general darkness and "devil's mirk" though it is quite clear that Elfhelm was in on it and his men knew not to draw attention to the stow aways. Elfhelm is one of my favourite minor characters and you can only imagine those unwritten scenes when Eowyn persuaded him to play along and when Eomer discovered the answer to his question "Eowyn!, how came you here?".
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#9 |
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Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Tolkien's inconsistencies are usually attributible to his incessant dawdling with the story. He writes, then rewrites, edits the rewrites and then writes the whole thing over again. Some of the old material remains with the rewritten material, and over time there are strata of story molded into a coherent whole. It's rather like the whole process of oral mythology eventually conglomerating into printed form, except writ small by a single author over decades, when the usal process takes centuries.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#10 | |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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