T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

What other motive could she possibly have?

Is asking for further explanation from a throwaway one sentence comment a crime?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The Chapter is of course, Minas Tirith. Yay, now you have to vote me.

I said you would be considered, much different than now you get my vote. Seriously, though since Minas Tirith is correct, you are a candidate (in my head), so far, along with Rune.

This means the other 2 possibilities for NGs are still up for grabs.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So why not pick a more obscure quote, then?

I thought I was being pretty obscure? Anyway, I needed a quote that I felt fit the situation. The person the noble (old probably would have been a better descriptor ) wisened figure was talking to made the throw away comment "unless the king should come again" after boasting he wasn't going to give up his power to any man. The old, wisend, figure was not convinced by the last comments, hence why he ends up questioning "Unless the King should come again?"

In this situation, I was not convinced that Fea's statement, regarding why voting and retracting for me was "nothing more complicated" than being alphetically first. So, I needed a quote which would show my lack of being convinced, and ask for further explanation. Maybe it wasn't obscure, but I found it fitting regarding the situation, and pretty clever.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I meant that I thought Fea explained why she did her retraction vote already in the first place, then she added another explanation for the sake of it, still Boro questioned her which I didn't quite get what for.

Actually, you misrepresent what happened Legate. Fea gave her post with the retraction and one-liner explanation. I asked for more, she gave it, and since then I have not asked for any more. That means you can assume that either 1. I have been convinced by Fea's reasoning or 2. I have gotten all that I need from it and find no more use in pursuing it.

My other posts have not been still asking Fea for more, but responses to Roa and Nerwen who have asked what the hell is going on?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I thought I was being pretty obscure? Anyway, I needed a quote that I felt fit the situation. The person the noble (old probably would have been a better descriptor ) wisened figure was talking to made the throw away comment "unless the king should come again" after boasting he wasn't going to give up his power to any man. The old, wisend, figure was not convinced by the last comments, hence why he ends up questioning "Unless the King should come again?"

The speaker was none other than Gandalf the Grey. Considering the company you're in, there may not have been a quote obscure enough.

I don't really 'get' the controversy surrounding you and Fea. I'm not a fan of throwing away retractable votes that could serve a legitimate purpose, but that's just me.

[Nienna]

I can vouch for Fea hating retractable votes. It's not suspicious, she would do the same thing in any role that she had. This is why Fea can be sneaky. She doesn't necessarily have a particular playing style for a wolf that is noticeably different than when she is not a wolf. We just have to pay close attention to her in case of any slip-ups.

I also don't find the Boro thing weird but can understand people looking to find suspicion without a lot of information.

[Roa_Aoife]

Responding as I read, so this may be jumbled:

Originally Posted by legate

Well as for the Wolf-for-Captain business, Nerwen is right about that it's probably the most dangerous thing that could happen. However, I think the Wolves would try to approach such a position somewhat subtly. Though not necessarily, of course.

A wolf could always try bluffing. And seeing as there are four wolves, they can try out more than one strategy to get one of themselves picked. I, for one, don’t believe that people who want power should have it. But a wolf could always be subtle: “Sure, you could vote for me, if you want… not that I care, or anything…”

Originally Posted by legate

And I don't get the Fea and Boro business at all and I also have no idea why somebody should be picking in it. Because I thought that it's just something completely normal, like, what's happening? Nothing is happening, so what's the problem? (With both of them and for the others.)

That was actually my point. Boro was saying that what Fea did was suspicious, and I can’t see a reason for him to think so, so I’d like him to explain why he thought so. If he cannot, then it looks a lot like someone trying to create suspicion where none would otherwise be. With no seer, there is only one reason why someone would do that.
Why shouldn’t we be looking at it? The behavior on Boro’s part is suspicious, ergo I question him. Why does that seem odd to you?

Originally Posted by boromir88

Is asking for further explanation from a throwaway one sentence comment a crime?

In this situation, I was not convinced that Fea's statement, regarding why voting and retracting for me was "nothing more complicated" than being alphabetically first. So, I needed a quote which would show my lack of being convinced, and ask for further explanation. Maybe it wasn't obscure, but I found it fitting regarding the situation, and pretty clever.

You didn’t answer my question. You said weren’t convinced that Fea used you to throw away her retractables because your name was first alphabetically. I want to know why you should need convincing of it. And no, it’s not a crime, but the comment was not a throwaway, and there was nothing suspicious about it. Your implication of suspicion here is what I find suspicious, and you have yet to give a satisfactory answer as to your reaction.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, 18 villagers, a two-thirds of the way though the Day, and we're only on page two? Where is everybody?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Where is everybody?

In my case, totally brainless without food.

After I shower and eat I should have a little more to say.

[Nienna]

There were a lot of people who mentioned they would have RL commitments so they probably wouldn't be around much.

But I'm here... for a bit anyway. Is there something you/anyone would like to discuss?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nienna

There were a lot of people who mentioned they would have RL commitments so they probably wouldn't be around much.

But I'm here... for a bit anyway. Is there something you/anyone would like to discuss?

Umm... the game? The players who have posted thus far? What you think of peoples assertions? Who you're considering to be captain? Who you think might be a wolf (and why)? Who don't think is a wolf (and why)? We may not have much but we do have two pages. What do you think of them?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, 18 villagers, a two-thirds of the way though the Day, and we're only on page two? Where is everybody?

In my case my Max ran off under my parents watch and I must immediately drop my life and go drive 40 minutes to my house to wait for the poor guy to return.

[Boromir88]

Roa, you tense?

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

That was actually my point. Boro was saying that what Fea did was suspicious, and I can’t see a reason for him to think so, so I’d like him to explain why he thought so. If he cannot, then it looks a lot like someone trying to create suspicion where none would otherwise be. With no seer, there is only one reason why someone would do that.

I just think you're making too big of a deal about the whole thing. No offense to Fea, but she does a well enough job making herself look suspicious, because everything she says will be scrutinized. If not by me someone else (as others did comment on it).

Secondly, instead of throwaway (maybe that was a poor choice of wording) think of it this way. It's like if someone is the 4th consecutive vote for a Captain, and adds on "because I agree with Inzil, but this is not a bandwagon vote." Maybe the person doesn't want to bandwagon, but the point is, it's clearly a bandwagon and therfor the person saying it isn't one, is not convincing.

Basically, I never find what Fea does is random, whether she says it or not, or if it really is random or not. She chooses and uses people who will be an advantage to her, and sorry for prodding around a bit to figure out "why me?"

You didn’t answer my question. You said weren’t convinced that Fea used you to throw away her retractables because your name was first alphabetically. I want to know why you should need convincing of it. And no, it’s not a crime, but the comment was not a throwaway, and there was nothing suspicious about it. Your implication of suspicion here is what I find suspicious, and you have yet to give a satisfactory answer as to your reaction.

Were you the one who was supposedly at random voted for? No. So, you are not looking at it from my perspective. I already have an inflated ego of myself, most of the time I just scroll through the thread and see who has mentioned my name, so when someone votes me twice, retracts me twice, I don't see it as being the product of someone's random choice. I get picked for a reason...sorry if this sounds arrogant to you, but would you deny it?

As an aside, Fea, you bold the person you want to lynch and you highlight your Captain/NG votes. I don't know if that means you technically still have your retractions or not?

Clarification from Master Nogrod. Do we get 2 retractions to use for the entire game (whether Captain, lynch, or NG)? Or do we get 2 lynch-vote retractions for the entire game?

Edit: crossed with everyone since Roa's post that I quoted here.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Roa, you tense?

I find the lack of helpful posts frustrating, yes. Surprisingly, this makes not want to vote you, since you are the second loudest person in the village, and I may lynch myself if it continues on this way.

I just think you're making too big of a deal about the whole thing. No offense to Fea, but she does a well enough job making herself look suspicious, because everything she says will be scrutinized. If not by me someone else (as others did comment on it).

I have nothing else to go on, and I refuse to not say anything.

Secondly, instead of throwaway (maybe that was a poor choice of wording) think of it this way. It's like if someone is the 4th consecutive vote for a Captain, and adds on "because I agree with Inzil, but this is not a bandwagon vote." Maybe the person doesn't want to bandwagon, but the point is, it's clearly a bandwagon and therfor the person saying it isn't one, is not convincing.

I fail to see the similarity.

Basically, I never find what Fea does is random, whether she says it or not, or if it really is random or not. She chooses and uses people who will be an advantage to her, and sorry for prodding around a bit to figure out "why me?"

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

Were you the one who was supposedly at random voted for? No. So, you are not looking at it from my perspective. I already have an inflated ego of myself, most of the time I just scroll through the thread and see who has mentioned my name, so when someone votes me twice, retracts me twice, I don't see it as being the product of someone's random choice. I get picked for a reason...sorry if this sounds arrogant to you, but would you deny it?

Yes, I would deny it. It's meaningless. I would have ignored her post had she picked my name, because nothing can possibly come of it.

Edit: crossed with 73 down

[Kath]

Oi! To sally and Rune. I've actually made it to a Day 1 this time so there.

Actually I must admit it's only because Nog put the link on the admin thread which I get emails from ... but never mind! I am here. By the way a 10pm deadline is always a little bit of a rush for me as I tend to forget until the last minute so don't be surprised if you suddenly get a flurry of (and by that I mean my usual 3) posts all in one go at about half 9!

Off for a bit now. Will return later.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

I spend a fair portion of my time amused that people give me so much undeserved credit for brilliance or scheming.

More often I merely take credit for coincidences, or find ways to phrase things that leave no way for me to appear wrong.

It's exceptionally easy to say, after the fact, that I meant to do something all along.

And while I'll say proudly that I intended to stir up some discussion by tossing my retractions, it's something I'd have done with or without an ulterior motive.

Day Ones are boring without something to discuss.

I for one believe that anybody with the village's best interest at heart will toss their retractions, thereby cornering the wolves into getting rid of theirs as well.

But since people will selfishly and fearfully hold on to the promise that they might make a difference for the better, they will never take away the opportunity for bad guys to make a difference for the worse.

Life is sacrifice, my lambs.

But are any others brave enough to take initiative?

[Roa_Aoife]

FEA! You're alive! I was afraid you drowned in the shower!

[Valier]

Both Roa and Legate your reasoning behind voting for quiets as NG makes sense to me now, I never even thought of that (early for me like I said)

and Fea....so we are YOUR lambs are we?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I find the lack of helpful posts frustrating, yes. Surprisingly, this makes not want to vote you, since you are the second loudest person in the village, and I may lynch myself if it continues on this way.

Legate is correct in his cautioning about bandwagon voting for someone on a minor thing.

However, if you find me suspicious, than vote for me, because I would not be the worst loss. Also, randomly deciding to bandwagon against someone else, because you are not confident in the suspicion of your top suspect, and then the rest of the people who decide to follow you for the same reasons can turn out just as awful (possibly more) than not going with a top suspect even if your reasons are minor against your top.

So, pretty much it would be a lot easier if we vote for our top suspects. I can't tell you what they will decide to do with you when my role turns up, but I wouldn't be the most terrible loss and therefor, going with someone who is not your top suspect might wind up more terrible.

I have nothing else to go on, and I refuse to not say anything.

I'm not suspecting you for it, I'm aggravated because you keep telling me I'm not answering your questions, when I have been. I have a bigger ego of myself than you do of yourself and do not think I am ever the choice for someone at random. You may not like my reasons, but separate that from the fact that I have been answering you.

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

When it comes from Fea, who I grant can do random things, but there is a history of her openly wanting me dead early...and I was trying to find out in this situation, why?

Edit: crossed with I have no idea how many.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Clarification from Master Nogrod. Do we get 2 retractions to use for the entire game (whether Captain, lynch, or NG)? Or do we get 2 lynch-vote retractions for the entire game?

I must admit I was thinking mainly about the lynch-votes, but let's say it is what it says eg. two votes whatever they are? That's the simplest way to solve the issue.

The whole point of giving people two retractions was that if someone someday was unsure whether s/he could come back before the DL there would be a chance to change one's vote if one eventually had a chance to come back and saw that important information had turned out while s/he had been away.