T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Roa_Aoife]

Responding as I read, so this may be jumbled:

Originally Posted by legate

Well as for the Wolf-for-Captain business, Nerwen is right about that it's probably the most dangerous thing that could happen. However, I think the Wolves would try to approach such a position somewhat subtly. Though not necessarily, of course.

A wolf could always try bluffing. And seeing as there are four wolves, they can try out more than one strategy to get one of themselves picked. I, for one, don’t believe that people who want power should have it. But a wolf could always be subtle: “Sure, you could vote for me, if you want… not that I care, or anything…”

Originally Posted by legate

And I don't get the Fea and Boro business at all and I also have no idea why somebody should be picking in it. Because I thought that it's just something completely normal, like, what's happening? Nothing is happening, so what's the problem? (With both of them and for the others.)

That was actually my point. Boro was saying that what Fea did was suspicious, and I can’t see a reason for him to think so, so I’d like him to explain why he thought so. If he cannot, then it looks a lot like someone trying to create suspicion where none would otherwise be. With no seer, there is only one reason why someone would do that.
Why shouldn’t we be looking at it? The behavior on Boro’s part is suspicious, ergo I question him. Why does that seem odd to you?

Originally Posted by boromir88

Is asking for further explanation from a throwaway one sentence comment a crime?

In this situation, I was not convinced that Fea's statement, regarding why voting and retracting for me was "nothing more complicated" than being alphabetically first. So, I needed a quote which would show my lack of being convinced, and ask for further explanation. Maybe it wasn't obscure, but I found it fitting regarding the situation, and pretty clever.

You didn’t answer my question. You said weren’t convinced that Fea used you to throw away her retractables because your name was first alphabetically. I want to know why you should need convincing of it. And no, it’s not a crime, but the comment was not a throwaway, and there was nothing suspicious about it. Your implication of suspicion here is what I find suspicious, and you have yet to give a satisfactory answer as to your reaction.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, 18 villagers, a two-thirds of the way though the Day, and we're only on page two? Where is everybody?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Where is everybody?

In my case, totally brainless without food.

After I shower and eat I should have a little more to say.

[Nienna]

There were a lot of people who mentioned they would have RL commitments so they probably wouldn't be around much.

But I'm here... for a bit anyway. Is there something you/anyone would like to discuss?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nienna

There were a lot of people who mentioned they would have RL commitments so they probably wouldn't be around much.

But I'm here... for a bit anyway. Is there something you/anyone would like to discuss?

Umm... the game? The players who have posted thus far? What you think of peoples assertions? Who you're considering to be captain? Who you think might be a wolf (and why)? Who don't think is a wolf (and why)? We may not have much but we do have two pages. What do you think of them?

[Nienna]

List of people in order of post count:

Roa: asking a lot of questions and prompting a lot of discussion. She subtly says that she could be captain and then says that wolves my do the same thing.

Boro: either being silly or spending the whole time defending the two not silly things he said (questioning Fea’s use of him as a retraction and his quote method of picking people to vote for)

Sally: doesn’t want to be captain and won’t be around much

Zil: could be captain, suspicious of Hakon

Rune: wants to be captain

Fea: doesn’t like retractable votes

Nienna:

Nerwen: thinks we need to be careful not to vote in a wolf for captain

Legate: questions the Fea/Boro thing

Hakon: wants to be captain

Gwath: won’t be around much

Lottie: doesn’t want to be captain

Valier: wouldn’t mind holding a position

Brinn: won’t be around much

------

I have a few vague suspicions but nothing really concrete.

Whats hard about the captain thing is that wolves want it but don't want to seem eager while the gifteds don't want it but don't want to seem like they don't want it. This could make their behavior very similar... we just have to be careful.

[Roa_Aoife]

Don't make me start flooding with analysis... I'll do it!

*sigh* Something tells me that the wolves are going be deep down undercover this game.

At this point, Rikae, Kath, Greenie, and Lommy have yet to even post. Greenie's a quiet one, fine, but what happened to the others?

I will probably vote someone who isn't here yet for captain. That way, if they are evil, at least they won't have a chance to do serious damage.

And at the moment my top suspect is Boromir. Yes, my points against him are circumstantial, but no one's posting.

EDIT: crossed with Nienna. YAY!

[Roa_Aoife]

Actually, I may vote one of them NG, since they are a likely pick for a wolf kill. (No trail to follow.)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Actually, you misrepresent what happened Legate. Fea gave her post with the retraction and one-liner explanation. I asked for more, she gave it, and since then I have not asked for any more. That means you can assume that either 1. I have been convinced by Fea's reasoning or 2. I have gotten all that I need from it and find no more use in pursuing it.

My other posts have not been still asking Fea for more, but responses to Roa and Nerwen who have asked what the hell is going on?

Okay, fine with me then, though in fact, I could still join in asking the question which Roa asked you:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

You didn’t answer my question. You said weren’t convinced that Fea used you to throw away her retractables because your name was first alphabetically. I want to know why you should need convincing of it. And no, it’s not a crime, but the comment was not a throwaway, and there was nothing suspicious about it. Your implication of suspicion here is what I find suspicious, and you have yet to give a satisfactory answer as to your reaction.

---

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Why shouldn’t we be looking at it? The behavior on Boro’s part is suspicious, ergo I question him. Why does that seem odd to you?

It does not necessarily seem odd to me, but I think it's too much of an easy place to pick on somebody. Boro's behavior seemed, let's say, weird to me, but not necessarily suspicous - I could as well imagine him acting that way. (Despite the fact that I would like to hear his explanation of that, mind you!) But I was, or am, slightly afraid of the easiness of creating a big issue from such a rather minor thing, which is actually what in some ways seems to be happening right now. So just in other words, I am warning innocents of jumping onto this discussion without clear head, because I think this is a model situation of how the Day 1 lynches always emerge. That's not to say that we couldn't lynch Boro, for that matter. But I just think that this case of one comment should not be let to overgrow into a huge bandwaggon suspicion, which so often happens from small seeds like this. And that's what makes the first Day easier for the Wolves, needless to say (unless in this case Boro was one of them).

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Umm... the game? The players who have posted thus far? What you think of peoples assertions? Who you're considering to be captain? Who you think might be a wolf (and why)? Who don't think is a wolf (and why)? We may not have much but we do have two pages. What do you think of them?

Well yes, that's what I would like to discuss too. However, I don't exactly want to say much yet before some more players appear - indeed, as it's been said, there had been quite a lot of people who still didn't show up, or who did not post much more than one short post or something. Also, then, from what I can say, I don't really feel like having read enough to vote for somebody as a Captain. I would really like to see others first. But okay, for the sake of it, one name - Nerwen, for instance. But that's really a long run yet, like I said. Very, very preliminary ideas.

If more people show up, you may get more from me.

EDIT: x-ed with Nienna and on

[Nogrod]

NB. There will be a change of a player in the game.


Rikae will have to withdraw but Mac will take her place.

I'll narrate Mac in in a short time replacing this announcement with it. But if someone is leaving the thread for good for toDay you should probably know it now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Haha, okay, I may as well post what I thought of, because I considered it a brilliant idea and it took me a few seconds to realise that it actually is not much of a help (if you say it just like that). After reading Nienna's post, I thought: "Hmm, Nienna is either an innocent... or a wolf."

Brilliant revelation, isn't it? Though you see, even though it seems like stating the obvious, the point is the dynamic behind the thinking. I have concluded that myself, I wasn't told that by the rules.

Well anyway, I may as well ask, Nienna, are you innocent?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It does not necessarily seem odd to me, but I think it's too much of an easy place to pick on somebody. Boro's behavior seemed, let's say, weird to me, but not necessarily suspicous - I could as well imagine him acting that way. (Despite the fact that I would like to hear his explanation of that, mind you!)

Granted it's been a while, but I always remembered Boro as being one the more vocal ones, and right now he's said only one serious thing and it was just downright weird.

But I was, or am, slightly afraid of the easiness of creating a big issue from such a rather minor thing, which is actually what in some ways seems to be happening right now.

A fair point. In my mind, that's exactly what it looks like Boromir was trying for with his comment on Fea, inviting others to look at it suspiciously as well, and then he backed off when no one took the bait. That's a move I've seen before.

So just in other words, I am warning innocents of jumping onto this discussion without clear head, because I think this is a model situation of how the Day 1 lynches always emerge.That's not to say that we couldn't lynch Boro, for that matter. But I just think that this case of one comment should not be let to overgrow into a huge bandwaggon suspicion, which so often happens from small seeds like this. And that's what makes the first Day easier for the Wolves, needless to say (unless in this case Boro was one of them).

Another fair point. But no one else is coming forward with anything. I can't catch everything, and the quiet ones (minimal posters who say little and post less) are my blind spot. Which means I'm operating really blindly in this game. Discussion is the only the village has during the Day. We can't catch anything if we aren't looking.

Edit: Cross posted with Nogrod down

[Valier]

I'm here and should be around till deadline today, but alas I am having pc problems so my posts will probably be sporatic.
Hmmmm my thoughts so far....well not much I must say. Roa's a wolf (well I always think Roas a wolf so....) I really don't think Boro is one...not sure why yet. I don't think Fea is, so far. I understand her reasoning behind her throwing away her retracts.

There are quite a few ways I can see the wolves playing the Captain thing...ie: Out right ask to be the Captain, or just subtly say they wouldn't mind or the most likely, be really really helpful and make alot of sense, tricking people into voting for you. Which if I was a wolf would probably be the way I would go, lol but just me saying that could be construed as suspisious, but hey it's true. When trying to catch wolves one must think like them.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, 18 villagers, a two-thirds of the way though the Day, and we're only on page two? Where is everybody?

In my case my Max ran off under my parents watch and I must immediately drop my life and go drive 40 minutes to my house to wait for the poor guy to return.

[Boromir88]

Roa, you tense?

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

That was actually my point. Boro was saying that what Fea did was suspicious, and I can’t see a reason for him to think so, so I’d like him to explain why he thought so. If he cannot, then it looks a lot like someone trying to create suspicion where none would otherwise be. With no seer, there is only one reason why someone would do that.

I just think you're making too big of a deal about the whole thing. No offense to Fea, but she does a well enough job making herself look suspicious, because everything she says will be scrutinized. If not by me someone else (as others did comment on it).

Secondly, instead of throwaway (maybe that was a poor choice of wording) think of it this way. It's like if someone is the 4th consecutive vote for a Captain, and adds on "because I agree with Inzil, but this is not a bandwagon vote." Maybe the person doesn't want to bandwagon, but the point is, it's clearly a bandwagon and therfor the person saying it isn't one, is not convincing.

Basically, I never find what Fea does is random, whether she says it or not, or if it really is random or not. She chooses and uses people who will be an advantage to her, and sorry for prodding around a bit to figure out "why me?"

You didn’t answer my question. You said weren’t convinced that Fea used you to throw away her retractables because your name was first alphabetically. I want to know why you should need convincing of it. And no, it’s not a crime, but the comment was not a throwaway, and there was nothing suspicious about it. Your implication of suspicion here is what I find suspicious, and you have yet to give a satisfactory answer as to your reaction.

Were you the one who was supposedly at random voted for? No. So, you are not looking at it from my perspective. I already have an inflated ego of myself, most of the time I just scroll through the thread and see who has mentioned my name, so when someone votes me twice, retracts me twice, I don't see it as being the product of someone's random choice. I get picked for a reason...sorry if this sounds arrogant to you, but would you deny it?

As an aside, Fea, you bold the person you want to lynch and you highlight your Captain/NG votes. I don't know if that means you technically still have your retractions or not?

Clarification from Master Nogrod. Do we get 2 retractions to use for the entire game (whether Captain, lynch, or NG)? Or do we get 2 lynch-vote retractions for the entire game?

Edit: crossed with everyone since Roa's post that I quoted here.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Roa, you tense?

I find the lack of helpful posts frustrating, yes. Surprisingly, this makes not want to vote you, since you are the second loudest person in the village, and I may lynch myself if it continues on this way.

I just think you're making too big of a deal about the whole thing. No offense to Fea, but she does a well enough job making herself look suspicious, because everything she says will be scrutinized. If not by me someone else (as others did comment on it).

I have nothing else to go on, and I refuse to not say anything.

Secondly, instead of throwaway (maybe that was a poor choice of wording) think of it this way. It's like if someone is the 4th consecutive vote for a Captain, and adds on "because I agree with Inzil, but this is not a bandwagon vote." Maybe the person doesn't want to bandwagon, but the point is, it's clearly a bandwagon and therfor the person saying it isn't one, is not convincing.

I fail to see the similarity.

Basically, I never find what Fea does is random, whether she says it or not, or if it really is random or not. She chooses and uses people who will be an advantage to her, and sorry for prodding around a bit to figure out "why me?"

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

Were you the one who was supposedly at random voted for? No. So, you are not looking at it from my perspective. I already have an inflated ego of myself, most of the time I just scroll through the thread and see who has mentioned my name, so when someone votes me twice, retracts me twice, I don't see it as being the product of someone's random choice. I get picked for a reason...sorry if this sounds arrogant to you, but would you deny it?

Yes, I would deny it. It's meaningless. I would have ignored her post had she picked my name, because nothing can possibly come of it.

Edit: crossed with 73 down

[Kath]

Oi! To sally and Rune. I've actually made it to a Day 1 this time so there.

Actually I must admit it's only because Nog put the link on the admin thread which I get emails from ... but never mind! I am here. By the way a 10pm deadline is always a little bit of a rush for me as I tend to forget until the last minute so don't be surprised if you suddenly get a flurry of (and by that I mean my usual 3) posts all in one go at about half 9!

Off for a bit now. Will return later.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

I spend a fair portion of my time amused that people give me so much undeserved credit for brilliance or scheming.

More often I merely take credit for coincidences, or find ways to phrase things that leave no way for me to appear wrong.

It's exceptionally easy to say, after the fact, that I meant to do something all along.

And while I'll say proudly that I intended to stir up some discussion by tossing my retractions, it's something I'd have done with or without an ulterior motive.

Day Ones are boring without something to discuss.

I for one believe that anybody with the village's best interest at heart will toss their retractions, thereby cornering the wolves into getting rid of theirs as well.

But since people will selfishly and fearfully hold on to the promise that they might make a difference for the better, they will never take away the opportunity for bad guys to make a difference for the worse.

Life is sacrifice, my lambs.

But are any others brave enough to take initiative?

[Roa_Aoife]

FEA! You're alive! I was afraid you drowned in the shower!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

FEA! You're alive! I was afraid you drowned in the shower!

Actually, I got massively distracted by the movie 'The Prince & Me: A Royal Honeymoon' which was exactly as terribly as it sounds. I haven't even made it to the shower yet. Naughty me...

Originally Posted by Valier

and Fea....so we are YOUR lambs are we?

Well, dear, in a game such as this, you're either a lamb or a wolf in sheep's clothing. Do you deny that you're a lamb?

Nienna- didn't anybody with a background in writing ever teach you that you can read things more quickly when they're spaced instead of compacted, and when they're formatted into columns instead of long lines? There's a reason it's easier to skim a newspaper article than it is to skim a Russian novel.

[Roa_Aoife]

I’m going to ignore the people with two posts or less, because there isn’t anything to say about them.
Starting at the bottom and working my way up:
Nerwen
Post 1 – Answers Boromir’s quote contest. Points out that the one reason to not vote for someone for NG would that gifted cannot act if voted into this role, is unsure whether this is true or not, Thinks people aren’t being serious about the captain
(She makes a good point and something I hadn’t yet thought of. Of course, the gifted can’t come out and say that they don’t want the job, so it makes little difference)
Post 2- Is curious about Boro and Fea, doesn’t understand why Fea got rid of her retractables, thinks Boromir should have picked a more obscure quote
(I hate retractables myself, but I don’t mind them when they’re limited in such a way. Not everyone feels that way, and a lot of people like them.)
Post 3- concedes to gwath that people are taking the captain role seriously, is confused by legate’s statement
(Aaaaaaand…. No, I got nothing.)
Also, Nienna, while your summary was astounding, I’m curious as to what conclusions you have drawn from it?

[Valier]

wow it's been so long I can't remember how to quote poeple.....
No fea I don't deny being a lamb, only that I am not your lamb.

[Boromir88]

Let's get the ball started...

++Captain Rune

Nice campaign speech, he wants it, take it.

++NG Inzil

This merely wasn't for jumping through a hoop for me in answering a question. I've had a very nice read on Inzil's past behavior as a wolf and he's not triggering any wolvish feeling. He's skilled enough to adapt, but I would like him protected.

[Valier]

Both Roa and Legate your reasoning behind voting for quiets as NG makes sense to me now, I never even thought of that (early for me like I said)

and Fea....so we are YOUR lambs are we?

[Roa_Aoife]

Ok, 5 hours before deadline, and all I have is a Boromir who's either of wolf whose plan didn't work, or paranoid villager, and that only because of one post.

You all asked for it. I'm going to start analysis (something I wanted to save for Day 2).

[Nienna]

Here Roa this might help. It's every post up until you asked me what I think of people. I'll be gone for 2 hours and then I'll be back to catch up and vote before my class.

Roa: being very serious, questioning
Boro: being silly
Zil: no problem being captain
Roa: is going to hold her NG vote until later, questions Zil
Valier: doesn’t have problems with being NG or Captain, will hold her captain vote for a while (like Roa she says though Roa is holding her NG not necessarily her captain)
Zil: could be Captain today (but not really tomorrow) “Whatever you all think best”… that is a bit weird…
Legate: likes that Roa was straight to the point, could be either NG or Captain. Thinks we should choose all 3 people very carefully
Boro: being silly
Roa: wondering where the village is
Sally: doesn’t want to be captain
Boro:… being… silly
Fea: tells people they can make her anything that they want but she can’t promise she’ll be good at said job
Rune: thinks Valier and himself are the most obvious choices for captain (jokingly or not... don’t know)… “but do we want the responsibility? We might never know…” … this was weird.
Zil: wonders why Rune and Valier are the most obvious choices
Rune: “because we are fantastic” because they play the game well? *tries to not be offended*
Fea: uses her retractions so they won’t be around
Sally: “erm… okay?” at Rune about the Rune/Valier captain choices
Rune: apparently posting while tipsy, dislikes retractable votes as well
Roa: asks Rune why he wants to be captain, she had no logistical problems with being captain but makes no promises on being adept at it
Roa: finds Rune suspicious for being too eager for the captaincy.
Boro: explains that Rune likes having power and importance so this makes him a top candidate for captain, finds the Fea remark defending her use of Boro for retractions: “hardly convincing”, plans to vote people into various positions based on their ability to identify some quotes
Sally: responds to Boro’s quotes
Rune: wants to be Captain because he has the most faith in himself though he says a FeaCaptain might be interesting too
Fea: defends her retraction-defense
Roa: questions Boro about his quotes
Leslote: pops in to say that she probably wouldn’t be a good captain as it is her first time playing
Roa: helps Leslote becoming invisible
Roa: will be back
Leslote: apologizes for being visible
Hakon: has leadership qualities so wouldn’t mind being captain, thinks we should be careful to not vote a gifted into captaincy, proclaims his innocence… as a non-gifted.
Zil: finds Hakon’s innocence proclamation weird and asks if he is sure he is innocent
Sally: thinks Hakon’s innocence thing awkward, won’t make Rune, Lottie (the new nickname), Hakon, or Fea captain
Hakon: felt the need to state that he was innocent
Sally: won’t be around much
Sally: thinks people leaving clues just because they can is weird
Nienna: asked some fabulous questions that no one answered… its cool.
Boro: defends his quote and leaves it open to other takers
Roa: wonders what other motive Fea could have had for defending her retraction post within the post
Nerwen: identifies Boro’s quote, thinks we should take the captain stuff more seriously as we really don’t want to vote in a wolf
Nerwen: wonders what Boro and Fea are up to
Gwath: reminds Nerwen that only a few people have actually said they want to be captain the rest say they wouldn’t object to holding the position
Gwath: will be busy
Brinn: won’t be around a lot, needs to vote soon, is a bit confused about the rules, doesn’t want to random vote as she wouldn’t want to be responsible for putting a wolf in for captain
Legate: wolf as captain would be tragic, doesn’t understand Fea/Boro, doesn’t have much time
Newren: asks Legate for clarification
Legate: clarifies that the Fea/Boro thing should be dropped
Rune: can relate to Fea dropping her retractable votes
Fea: defends her retracts
Boro: defends himself some more
Zil: answers another part of the quote, doesn’t understand the Fea Controversy
Nienna: vouches for Fea, doesn’t find the Boro thing weird
Roa: a wolf could try bluffing into captaincy, wonders why Legate finds her questioning Boro odd, prompts Boro to actually answer her question
Roa: wonders some more where people are
Fea: needs shower and food
Nienna: reminds Roa that people mentioned lots of RL reasons for being away
Boro: says why he’s not going to be around much
Roa: prompts me to make this post

[Inziladun]

Gah, I dislike Day 1's.
Even with many people talking, there never seems to be much of substance to work with. I may be leaning toward Boro as one NG, however. While I don't think him worthy of serious doubt just yet, he's sending an odd vibe or two.
The Captain is, at the moment, nearly as pressing a concern for me as the lynch candidate for toDay. That's a lot of power, and certainly dangerous for a wolf to have.
Roa (who I have absolutely no previous knowledge of) has been the most vocal and has said nothing to draw my suspicion yet. I'm considering her for Captain.
Really, the most doubtful thing I've seen thus far is Hakon's remark about why he'd make a good Captain candidate.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I find the lack of helpful posts frustrating, yes. Surprisingly, this makes not want to vote you, since you are the second loudest person in the village, and I may lynch myself if it continues on this way.

Legate is correct in his cautioning about bandwagon voting for someone on a minor thing.

However, if you find me suspicious, than vote for me, because I would not be the worst loss. Also, randomly deciding to bandwagon against someone else, because you are not confident in the suspicion of your top suspect, and then the rest of the people who decide to follow you for the same reasons can turn out just as awful (possibly more) than not going with a top suspect even if your reasons are minor against your top.

So, pretty much it would be a lot easier if we vote for our top suspects. I can't tell you what they will decide to do with you when my role turns up, but I wouldn't be the most terrible loss and therefor, going with someone who is not your top suspect might wind up more terrible.

I have nothing else to go on, and I refuse to not say anything.

I'm not suspecting you for it, I'm aggravated because you keep telling me I'm not answering your questions, when I have been. I have a bigger ego of myself than you do of yourself and do not think I am ever the choice for someone at random. You may not like my reasons, but separate that from the fact that I have been answering you.

Fea can be quite random. But what could possibly have come of her post? Unless she's some dashedly complicated scheme, I can't see what could possibly come of it.

When it comes from Fea, who I grant can do random things, but there is a history of her openly wanting me dead early...and I was trying to find out in this situation, why?

Edit: crossed with I have no idea how many.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Clarification from Master Nogrod. Do we get 2 retractions to use for the entire game (whether Captain, lynch, or NG)? Or do we get 2 lynch-vote retractions for the entire game?

I must admit I was thinking mainly about the lynch-votes, but let's say it is what it says eg. two votes whatever they are? That's the simplest way to solve the issue.

The whole point of giving people two retractions was that if someone someday was unsure whether s/he could come back before the DL there would be a chance to change one's vote if one eventually had a chance to come back and saw that important information had turned out while s/he had been away.