TIG LXIX: Meeting at the House of Usher

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nog

Couldn't it mean we're right about them then?

Quite possibly. Hence my vote.

Originally Posted by Nog

And why say you're no part of the "consensus" but still give the impression you agree with it?

Actually, I was accepting that I was now (not no) part of the consensus.

Originally Posted by me

I am wary of this growing consensus against them, of which I am now a part, but they do both look rather suspicious.

Nightie Night all.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

We keep shooting Hakon down, but in the last three games he has now hunted a wolf, protected the seer, and dreamt a werebear. He must be doing something right

Or its sheer dumb luck. I was a gifted or wolf(it alternated) for the first six games I played and was made, intentionally, an ordo in Boro's game. At this point I'm thinking its all luck. He doesn't have to be doing something right.

Also why are we all assuming he dreamed of Boro? Its an easy guess, but its not known. For all we know he dreamed of Fea or Sally(other good dream choices).

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So Lari and sally are ill (I wasn't aware of that, explains the can't-be-bothered attitude), and wilwa has said she's busy and might even have to drop out;

I saw this after my other post and just wanted to say thank you.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If everyone did that on Day1 (really tried to look for the baddies laying points on them) the Day1's would be real opportunities to lynch a wolf instead of easy hunker-down bandwagons that seem to hit gifteds and innocents more often than the wolves (because the wolves know who to vote). It's pretty frustrating to be the only one (well, one of the few) to actually try something on D1 and get load of X from that.

How do you suppose we do that? It's Day 1. What, we analyze people's greeting posts? "Oh Nog said Hi, but Sally said Hey THAT MEANS THEY ARE WOLVES". While I would love a productive Day 1, most of the time when a baddie is lynched on Day 1, unless a Seer reveals, it is luck. Looking for slip ups on Day 1, fine, but how often do wolves really leave traces that you can still till one of them is killed?

If we all followed your rules we may get a wolf, or in future games wolves would speak up more and become more intelligent. Then how would you vote?

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I am still toying with the idea of voting for either Lari or sally, on the basis of yesterDay's Hakon vote. But Lari has not appeared toDay and sally has said little of consequence. So there is nothing more to go on toDay for either of them. Which may, I suppose, be a reason in itself to vote for one of them. But, if I do, which one?

First of all, I did appear right at the beginning of the Day(and I just saw your mention of that...maybe I'm not as better as I thought considering I've read that post five times already and just saw that). And went to bed before anything of consequence happened. Second, and this is a general second, why is everyone assuming(and by that I mean SPM, Inzil, Pitch, Greenie, and Nog), assuming that since Sally and I voted(and to be honest I didn't really notice Sally's vote when I voted) for the Seer that was are automatically evil? Did all of you see that he was the Seer? Because I didn't. I was annoyed.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Lari and Sally would have to have been in cahoots and try to save Spm their mate in crime for that scenario to be true... or then one of them (or both?) just wished to lay low and make a safe and probably nonsequiential lynch?

This is based on our votes? Really? First of all, why would the wolves do that anyway? There are four wolves right? Kill one there is still three. Saving one would be pointless from their perspective.

And fine, I'm going to be defensive but let's take a look at the "hey Sally and Lari both were not really there and voted for Hakon...THEY MUST BE EVIL" people(note post numbers included):

Starts with a slight mention by Pitch in 179, where he says we unnerve him, SPM adds in 186, Brinn is annoyed with us in the next post because we voted for him because we thought he was annoying, interesting to note, moves to Inzil, who really seems to jump on the whole "wow we really need to look at them" and I apparently look worst than Sally. Why is that Inzil? Because I voted second?

Nog, how did I got from, in post 203, a"non-interested ordos or people with RL hindrances"(quote also about Lottie) to evil?

And now I see Lottie jumping on.

Honestly I don't like how much Inzil pushes this whole thing. Actually, I don't like Nog either for that matter. Brinn's comment also caught my eye.

[Nienna]

Greenie--> Sally
McCaber--> Nog
Roa--> Greenie
Nog--> Greenie
Pitchwife--> Fea
SPM--> Greenie (3)
Zil--> Fea (2)
Lottie--> McCaber

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Also why are we all assuming he dreamed of Boro? Its an easy guess, but its not known. For all we know he dreamed of Fea or Sally(other good dream choices).

Because he listed them as possible Bears. They are not possible Bears. Had he dreamed them, he would have known this.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

How do you suppose we do that? It's Day 1. What, we analyze people's greeting posts? "Oh Nog said Hi, but Sally said Hey THAT MEANS THEY ARE WOLVES". While I would love a productive Day 1, most of the time when a baddie is lynched on Day 1, unless a Seer reveals, it is luck. Looking for slip ups on Day 1, fine, but how often do wolves really leave traces that you can still till one of them is killed?

Oh, but they do, quite often. True, an innocent is more often lynched on Day One, but then the wolves often give themselves away by their Day One voting.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

If we all followed your rules we may get a wolf, or in future games wolves would speak up more and become more intelligent. Then how would you vote?

Mmmn. How would we we vote if everyone openly votes at random on Day One, thereby leaving no traces whatever, which seems to be your plan? You said the exact same thing last game, too.

And talking of paranoia... why are you acting as though there's a huge bandwagon against you, Lari? No-one's voted for you. No-one's even talking about voting for you, last time I checked.

EDIT:X'd with Nienna and Brinn.

[Brinniel]

Lari, I never did say I suspected you; I simply suggested that I was wary of your vote. Because I still don't think it was justified. But I think you're overreacting a bit. So people are suspicious of your voting. You have every right to defend yourself, but there's really no need to get upset. It's not like people are voting you left and right. Anyway, your recent posts give me the impression that you're more likely a frustrated innocent than anything else.

Originally Posted by Lari

Also why are we all assuming he dreamed of Boro? Its an easy guess, but its not known. For all we know he dreamed of Fea or Sally(other good dream choices).

It's pretty well assumed because Boro was the only one Hakon hinted towards. No, we can't know it for sure, but if it were someone else, there's no way for us to tell. Anyway, Boro's already dead, so it doesn't really make much of a difference.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

And fine, I'm going to be defensive but let's take a look at the "hey Sally and Lari both were not really there and voted for Hakon...THEY MUST BE EVIL" people(note post numbers included):

Starts with a slight mention by Pitch in 179, where he says we unnerve him, SPM adds in 186, Brinn is annoyed with us in the next post because we voted for him because we thought he was annoying, interesting to note, moves to Inzil, who really seems to jump on the whole "wow we really need to look at them" and I apparently look worst than Sally. Why is that Inzil? Because I voted second?

I can understand your wanting to give an explanation, but aren't you overdoing it a bit? Have you received any votes yet?
I didn't like the way you and Sally suddenly appeared and quickly voted Hakon, using suspicions as voiced by other players. That's all. And it seemed you looked a little more off than Sally because you came in so closely behind her, echoing her for part of your reason, then adding the bit about Hakon's insinuating the mods would lie, which was also said by someone else previously.

x/d with Brinn, Nerwen, and Lottie

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

It's pretty well assumed because Boro was the only one Hakon hinted towards. No, we can't know it for sure, but if it were someone else, there's no way for us to tell. Anyway, Boro's already dead, so it doesn't really make much of a difference.

Really? Cause here are his posts that might point to things.

Originally Posted by Hakon

I have arrived at last. I am going to start off by saying DON'T PAY ATTENTION THE BEAR YET. I am going to use names from this previous disagreement that has been mentioned. I thought we could use the bear to our advantage and Rikae got mad at me and then there was a fight and the bear killed me. That bear was Mira. Seer whoever you think Mira would make a bear, dream of that person tonight.

Originally Posted by Hakon

That is what McCaber said about his game and I still figured out that he had made SPM a wolf. I will do some thinking as to who the bear is and who the wolves are. I will post my suspicions and hope that the seer picks one of those names to dream of. I know the seer won't listen to me alone so I am hoping my suspicions are shared. Now looking at who Mira would pick to be the bear a few names come to mind. Fea, Boro, and Sally.

He talks about the bear twice and mentions, I guess in a way, a lay out of possible dreams in a sequence he would go in. So lets assume that. That means his first dream was Fea not Boro. That he was going to dream of Boro last Night.

[Inziladun]

Just saw on the admin thread that Wilwa's out. I wonder how that'll affect things?

[Brinniel]

Right now it comes down between McCaber and Fea for my top vote choices. McCaber for his vote toDay as his reasons behind it were just terrible in my opinion, and Fea because she is withholding her opinions (I asked her why she suspected the people on her list and she never replied). Also this whole theory that Hakon dreamed Fea is a bit absurd. It doesn't really doing anything except perhaps exonerate Fea, which of course is what she wants.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm still worried about Fea, but I think I'll give her the benefit of the doubt toDay since she can be an enigma and I've been wrong about her before. But I really would like to hear more opinions from her come toMorrow.

Meanwhile McCaber has been a submarine.

++McCaber

[Nienna]

Deadline. Stop posting.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

He talks about the bear twice and mentions, I guess in a way, a lay out of possible dreams in a sequence he would go in. So lets assume that. That means his first dream was Fea not Boro. That he was going to dream of Boro last Night.

Then he wouldn't have said Fea was a possible Bear, because he would have known otherwise. He probably would have pegged her as a 'possible', well, whatever it is she is. If you really follow your own reasoning, he would have dreamed someone else entirely. But then he would have mentioned something about them. Your logic is either pushing his posts too far or not far enough.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Jumping on what? I said I looked forward to your "real" post. How is that jumping on a Lari bandwagon? Or what else were you talking about?

From this:

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm here, I'm here, sorry for being so late.

I voted Morsul because I thought he was most suspicious. I was not bandwagoning. I was totally surprised when I saw that Hakon, Fea, and Boro jumped on it.

Now I don't know who to vote. Sally, Fea, Lari, Nerwen, Greenie...I think they all look guilty...I have no idea which is worse.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Mmmn. How would we we vote if everyone openly votes at random on Day One, thereby leaving no traces whatever, which seems to be your plan? You said the exact same thing last game, too.

And talking of paranoia... why are you acting as though there's a huge bandwagon against you, Lari? No-one's voted for you. No-one's even talking about voting for you, last time I checked.

And there are still enough people here to vote for me. And there seems to be a growing tide against me.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

He talks about the bear twice and mentions, I guess in a way, a lay out of possible dreams in a sequence he would go in. So lets assume that. That means his first dream was Fea not Boro. That he was going to dream of Boro last Night.

Then by your own logic, he would have dreamed of Fea the first night, in which case he wouldn't have said she was a possible bear, because he would have known otherwise. He would have dreamed of someone else entirely.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Then by your own logic, he would have dreamed of Fea the first night, in which case he wouldn't have said she was a possible bear, because he would have known otherwise. He would have dreamed of someone else entirely.

Or that he was laying out his dreams. In the best way he could think of. As I said.

[Mirandir]

Hey guys, sally would like me to inform you that her internet decided to die and she won't be around for the rest of the Day. Carry on. ^_^

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

He talks about the bear twice and mentions, I guess in a way, a lay out of possible dreams in a sequence he would go in. So lets assume that. That means his first dream was Fea not Boro. That he was going to dream of Boro last Night.

See my last post. Fea, whatever she is, isn't the bear.

Anyway, this is an academic point, because Hakon left no clues that would point to the role of any unknown. Or is your argument a roundabout way of saying that he dreamed of Fea and must have found her innocent, since he didn't denounce her as a wolf? Most unlikely. I know Hakon's weird, but listing someone as a possible villain when he'd just dreamed her innocent? Come on.

Edit:X'd with multiple Laris and Loslotes, Zil, and the moddess.

[Lariren Shadow]

And it can't be something he would have pointed to later in the game, if he revealed as a "these were who I thought was the bear in this order so I dreamed of them in this order"?

And this is assuming Fea is innocent. Which I'm not, as she's Fea in general(and writes poetry).

Yes he lists them as possible bears and we know one of them was the Bear, but he never out right says it nor does he vote for him.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

And it can't be something he would have pointed to later in the game, if he revealed as a "these were who I thought was the bear in this order so I dreamed of them in this order"?

And this is assuming Fea is innocent. Which I'm not, as she's Fea in general(and writes poetry).

Yes he lists them as possible bears and we know one of them was the Bear, but he never out right says it nor does he vote for him.

Well, if you don't think there's a clue to Fea's innocence in Hakon's posting, why are you harping on it? There certainly isn't a clue to any living player's guilt.

This is a pointless sidetrack, Lari.

EDIT:X'd with Fea.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

See my last post. Fea, whatever she is, isn't the bear.

Clearly, since Borangutan already died.

My theory at this point is that Hakon dreamed of me first (since he listed me first), hoping Mira would meta-make me bear; he would have then learned that my role is nothing special, and tried to subtly leave a hint that he learned no evil roles, but that he was working on it.

Which leads to the fact that he didn't actually know Borangutan's role, and therefore Hakon's death was probably actually coincidence.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

And now I see Lottie jumping on.

Jumping on what? I said I looked forward to your "real" post. How is that jumping on a Lari bandwagon? Or what else were you talking about?

EDIT: xed with Nerwen