Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Folwren]

You do realize, Nogrod (and everyone, for that matter), that all this was in jest? To my eye, Groin writing for Lithor meant Lithor to mean no harm, or at least little harm. But the way that other writer's appeared to take it and have their characters take it goes to show that even a jest may be taken terribly, terribly wrong.

That being said, the game has progressed. The joke has not been taken well, tempers are rising, and it appears that Lithor is in very deep trouble quite on accident.

I will try to post for Thornden tonight. I kind of wish we could have Groin post next, but now that Crabannan has interrupted, I think it would be appropriate for Thornden to try to say something.

Harping back on what you said earlier Nogrod:

After his own 12-year old daughter was beaten by the local "mob", lord Athanar is not in a mood to be easy or understanding with the locals any more if there is such a foolery... From his POV he was already too soft in letting the fate of his daughter to go unpunished - and he did that to show he can give in so that the locals would also give in, in turn.

Was he really going to let it go? I had thought he just didn't do or say anything yet because the banquet had to happen. Well, well. Javan turns lucky once more...unless Athanar changes his mind.

-- Foley

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I would recommend that even if Athanar lets Javan go, so to speak, that one of the original Mead Hallers devises a suitable punishment. Perhaps specifically Saeryn.

[Mnemosyne]

From my end, I know what Groin meant as Lithor... but I'm not Wynflaed, and her perception has been colored by what her husband just said. But taking things out of context and overreacting is fun.

As far as I can tell we're not looking into the matter of punishing Javan (we still don't even know who did it, yet) until after the banquet is over and we can make some discreet inquiries. And even then Wynflaed is going to want to hear the other side of the story, both because that's good policy and because she knows that these sorts of things don't happen without provocation.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh good heavens... I just wrote a post in which Degas... feels... sorry - gasp - for Athanar.

You know, I really didn't see that coming, but then I realized that the two characters are really foils for each other. Both are lords walking into a horrible mess that requires shows of power/diplomacy/etc and constant attention in order to regain stability, but Degas did it by showing his people that he is one of them, whereas Athanar seems hellbent on proving that he is their superior.

Degas's theory is that his people are already perfectly well aware of his title. The question is getting them to listen because they want to, not because they must.

So while he's massively irritated that Athanar doesn't seem to understand/care about tact, he's also totally on the guy's side when it comes to dealing swiftly with soldiers/commoners who appear to disrespect authority.

Hence him watching Lithor and Crabannan with what amounts to a bit of disinterest whilst others react with shock.

I'm actually quite certain Degas would like Athanar a lot if they could just work out Saeryn's future in an acceptable manner.

Ahem.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I would recommend that even if Athanar lets Javan go, so to speak, that one of the original Mead Hallers devises a suitable punishment. Perhaps specifically Saeryn.

What would be a suitable punishment? I don't really know. My younger brother has never hit a girl before, and Javan's been mostly fashioned after him in a lot of cases.

Mnemosyne (I almost caleld you Wynflaed), I'm glad she wants to hear the other side of the story. Aedre really didn't do a good job of telling a very unbiased tale.

I posted for Thornden. Let's hope he succeeds in his plans to cool tempers and avert instantaneous death....I mean, arrest. Up until this moment, I don't think I quite realized that Thornden was a pacifier. Hm.

-- Foley

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Folwren

What would be a suitable punishment? I don't really know. My younger brother has never hit a girl before, and Javan's been mostly fashioned after him in a lot of cases.

Hm... I'm trying to remember what happened the one time my brother hit me. *strains memory* I told my mom. Who told my dad. And then... I think I didn't have the guts to stick around and view his punishment. Which explains why I don't remember what happened.

I'm not thinking corporal punishment. I'm thinking more like... he can work off his offense. Perhaps this could be something that Wynflaed and Saeryn come together to work out? I was thinking perhaps Javan might be made to do tasks for Wynflaed's maid or something for a while. Sort of an assistant. So that through it he comes to know the ladies of the household?

Or not. Random thoughts, and I'm tired and don't feel good, so my random thoughts might actually be terrible, and I wouldn't even know it.

[Formendacil]

If being a semi-active writer again will permit me the insolence, I'd like to nitpick with the Mead Hall writers generally about a little spelling...

Namely:

"Court Marshal" is not what you think it is. A marshal is a person, and therefore a noun, and therefore, if combined with "court", it must be "the marshal of the court." Well, we all know that Marshals in Rohan are military officers, of the highest rank. Whomever Athanar served before coming to Scarburg, you can bet the Marshal of the Edoras Muster was one.

See... what you mean is "Court Martial"--with "court" as the noun, modified by the adjective "martial"--which you will remember from such phrases as "martial arts" or "martial law"--that is to say, "martial" could be considered to modify a noun such that it now has specific reference to war matters (being a related to the name "Mars"--the Roman god of war). As a soldier, Lithor would be Court Martialled, because he will be tried under martial law--the law that would hold in times of war, when soldiers order justice.

Personally.... I'm not entirely convinced that the Rohirrim of the early 4th Age would have had different judicial systems for commoner and soldier, because I don't think they had a "military" or "standing army" as such. Soldiers, yes--men directly in the employ of the King or Lord to serve martial duty, but I don't think that this would have meant a different relationship to the law than a common Eorling, who, after all, if able to serve and ride would be eligible to be raised in muster during time of war.

However, my personal quibbles about judicial matters aside, if you mean that Lithor will be tried as a soldier in a soldier's court, that court is a Court-Martial. Which is not the say that Elfwine, Erkenbrand, or whomever the Marshal of the Edoras Muster currently is, could not preside in such a court--indeed, I'd think them likely--it's just that they are different things.

~Formendacil - Wannabe Professor and Certified Nerd

[Folwren]

Formy, good catch. I didn't think Marshal was right, but I couldn't think of the proper word.

I, too, wondered about whether or not a court martial would actually be present in Rohan, but I am not an authority on such matters. Elempi was always catching stuff like that and letting us know when to alter stuff. If we decide to try to make things purely Rohirrimic (that's not a word, I don't think), then we could figure out what would be more proper. I actually think that in Rohan there would be no higher court - a soldier would be first subject to their captain and then subject to their lord, and maybe, if the offence were bad enough, could be hauled off to court before the king. That also seems pretty much the exact thing that would happen to a civilian, so I don't know.

----

Fea, I found your post very interesting and from a neat perspective. I had never considered such a reaction from Degas before. I liked it.

And I think it's humorous that you keep putting little tidbits of Saeryn's past into your posts through Degas' memory....do you do it on purpose, to give me insight to her character. Thanks.

As for Javan, what do you think if he were made to help Aedre, and not Wynflaed or Lilige? His crime wasn't against the mother or maid. I wrote a story once where one character beat up another pretty bad and then the captain made him be the other boys personal butler for two weeks. It worked pretty well...mostly....

Honestly, we don't have to avoid corporal punishment either. It would probably be perfectly natural and acceptable for that time and place. Plus, it doesn't bug me. But then, if it's Saeryn who's dealing out the punishment, she may not be likely to do that. I could actually see it being more appropriate to happen if they gave him another punishment and he either refused to do it (if he was being made to serve Aedre or something) or, in doing it, he did not do a good job on purpose, or they got into another fight. But then, come to think of it, a second fight would not be left up to Saeryn's jurisdiction but would go directly and almost immediately to Athanar, and then things would be in Nogrod's hands.

I am looking forward to later posts today and seeing how this scenerio in the hall works out.

-- Foley

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Folwren

You do realize, Nogrod (and everyone, for that matter), that all this was in jest? To my eye, Groin writing for Lithor meant Lithor to mean no harm, or at least little harm. But the way that other writer's appeared to take it and have their characters take it goes to show that even a jest may be taken terribly, terribly wrong.

Well sure, as it has been said already, we as players understand how it was meant, however, the characters' reactions are completely different. And it isn't even the point of what the character is like (in personality), not even how we (as players) see him, but what the other characters see of him, from their perspective, given their experiences from elsewhere and their view of things in general. For example Hilderinc encountered (or noticed) Lithor for the second time now, and both times he has drawn negative conclusions from that about Lithor's personality. First impressions are first impressions and one is going to carry them as a note in his mind about the person unless proven otherwise. Had he seen twenty times before Lithor saving children from burning houses or being nice to people, he would feel sympathetic now and think "sure he didn't mean anything bad, he is a good person". But without further knowledge, one may easily think "now this must be an arrogant fool, saying things like that in front of the lord".

But such misinterpretations of character, even though they are really pitiable when we look at them, are what makes the game interesting, aren't they? If everybody understood everybody, there won't be that much to uncover in the characters' relationships.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

You know, I really didn't see that coming, but then I realized that the two characters are really foils for each other.

But that's nice! That's what I think is brilliant about having new characters to interact with - you are going to discover (also for yourself, things your own character may not even realise consciously) many qualities which relate your character to another, in one way or another.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Fea, I found your post very interesting and from a neat perspective. I had never considered such a reaction from Degas before. I liked it.

My first thought was what my own reaction would be: that Athanar's seriously over-doing it just now. But it occurred to me that Degas has just dealt with this sort of insolence in his own home, and he's completely unlikely to step in in somebody else's household unless there are women and children being mistreated.

He's there solely for his sister, not for her peasant soldiers that can't hold their booze.

And I think it's humorous that you keep putting little tidbits of Saeryn's past into your posts through Degas' memory....do you do it on purpose, to give me insight to her character. Thanks.

Haha! You caught me. Since they're twins, and she's his only living relative, he thinks of her in relation to just about everything, as a matter of course. But there was also an awful lot I knew about her that never got written, so this is a fun way to give you insight into who she was as a kid, even though who she is now is all yours. If you start minding, let me know.

As for Javan, what do you think if he were made to help Aedre, and not Wynflaed or Lilige? His crime wasn't against the mother or maid.

That was my first thought, but I was thinking Aedre might take serious advantage of Javan being told to do as she says. And if Wynflaed's as reasonable as she seems, I think she'd realize that.