WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Mnemosyne]

Gosh, double-posting...

Roa, as for whether ordos should think about gifteds in game... (and this actually can be a meritorious debate as long as it doesn't clog the thread, IMO)

Problem is, I've seen (and been in) games where time and again gifted people get lynched because people seriously thought they were wolves. But no one ever wants to talk about whether this suspect might actually be gifted or not because they never want to give the real wolves ideas.

Which is a totally legitimate concern. And why it's smart to limit talk about gifteds (yet here I am, talking about them... yeesh).

But the same paranoia's going to niggle at my brain, whether I voice it or not. I can't ignore it. And maybe it's bad experience, and maybe it's none of my business, but I don't want to do the wolves' job for them by lynching--or letting lynch--or forcing a reveal, precipitating a Night kill--the people who are supposed to help us.

That's probably all I'm going to say on the topic, because, Roa, you do have some points and if we talk about this too much it 1). distracts from finding wolves, and 2). generally exposes the Gifteds even more.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Problem is, I've seen (and been in) games where time and again gifted people get lynched because people seriously thought they were wolves. But no one ever wants to talk about whether this suspect might actually be gifted or not because they never want to give the real wolves ideas.

Which is a totally legitimate concern. And why it's smart to limit talk about gifteds (yet here I am, talking about them... yeesh).

I don't think the gifteds, unless for some reason they become revealed to us, should be a concern at all. Let them do their thing, and we'll do ours: getting the wolves.
And you're right: I see no point in talking of it further.

x/d with Boro and Mac

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't think the gifteds, unless for some reason they become revealed to us, should be a concern at all. Let them do their thing, and we'll do ours: getting the wolves.
And you're right: I see no point in talking of it further.

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

On the flip side, how many times do the reasonable, agreeable ones (myself often included in this, I admit) get free passes early, for being just that...reasonable and agreeable?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

Huh?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And how many times have we lynched gifteds because they need to look just as suspicious as wolves, but not too suspicious (making them look to us even more suspicious than the suspicious wolves) so the wolves don't kill them?

On the flip side, how many times do the reasonable, agreeable ones (myself often included in this, I admit) get free passes early, for being just that...reasonable and agreeable?

Firstly, oops. Four wolves....

Secondly, speak for yourself- half the suspicions against me are always, "She sounds so reasonable but you never can tell with Roa..." But then, why should we lynch the people who makes sense and are reasonable rather than the people who don't makes sense and are unreasonable? If we start throwing reasonableness in there as a suspicious action, we may as well just start voting at random, because there will be no point in analyzing anyone.

I agree with Mac- a gifted that gets themselves lynched deserves their fate. The only people who have a reason to try to spot gifteds are the wolves. The rest of us are supposed to be wolf spotting.

[Roa_Aoife]

So what exactly are you trying to say, Boromir?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I agree with Mac- a gifted that gets themselves lynched deserves their fate. The only people who have a reason to try to spot gifteds are the wolves. The rest of us are supposed to be wolf spotting.

Exactly. I mean, yes, it's true we've lynched gifteds a lot lately, to the point where I can understand people getting paranoid– but there's really not much the village as a whole can do to prevent it.

As for Boro... echoing Zil, what are you trying to say, Boro? That we should not lynch suspicious people? That we should lynch anyone who makes sense instead? Really?

EDIT:X'd with Lottie; fixed quotes.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

As for Boro... echoing Zil, what are you trying to say, Boro? That we should not lynch suspicious people? That we should lynch anyone who makes sense instead? Really?

Wolves can't make sense? That's a first.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

So what exactly are you trying to say, Boromir?

I'm saying it's not as easy as "lets vote for wolves and any gifted who gets lynched deserves it." Because there is a logical and understandable reason for a gifted to want to look suspicious and hope it's not so suspicious they get lynched.

There is also a logical and understandable reason for wolves to want to look reasonable and agreeable so they don't get lynched. It's the dynamics of their situations.

Wolves biggest danger is the lynch, thus look reasonable to avoid it. The gifteds biggest danger is dying at night, by the wolves, thus they tend to want to attract suspicion to keep the wolves away.

Did I say we just go lynching all the reasonable ones? No. But it's a good start on Day 1, and lets try to separate the true ones from the fakers and don't be trigger happy on the people who jump out early as ones who make you "nervous."

edit: crossed with Boro - my "I agree with Pitch" was half-in-character, by the way.~Mac

The suspicion was directed more towards Pitch for making such an obvious statement and that being the only thing that really stands out about him at the moment.

[Brinniel]

Ugh, I just remembered how awful this deadline is for me. I'm only going to be around for a small window during the first half of the Day, unfortunately. So I'll do my best to participate now, though I'm afraid it's not much.

Nienna seemed to be the first to move away from the banter, which I appreciate. Right now I'm just too tired to process any long bantery posts, so let's just stay on-topic, okay?

On the subject of the gifteds, I agree we just leave it alone and not worry about accidentally lynching them. Our roles are our own responsibility and it's up to the gifted how they play. If we lynch them, it's not our fault; they are the ones to blame because it is by their own actions that makes them suspicious. And anyway, if we focus too much on who the gifteds may be and how to avoid them, we may end up leaving clues for the wolves, which could be quite dangerous if any of them are accurate.

Btw, I don't think Boro is saying let's lynch those who make sense and leave alone anyone who is acting suspicious. I think he's just trying to say we need to keep in mind that not everyone who is obviously suspicious is a wolf (and may even be possibly gifted) and not everyone who makes sense is innocent. So we can't make any assumptions based on that alone. Which I agree.

How I hate Day Ones. Not that they're useless, but I always have trouble coming to any conclusions, especially this early in the Day. I don't think it'd be right for me to vote now since it'd have to be completely random and I'm not in the mood for randomness. So I may not vote at all toDay. There's a possibility I'll be able to pop in real quick and vote later toMorrow, but don't have any high expectations.

P.S. I also think we should keep in mind that the polar bears are an endangered species and we must work to save them. Because if we can't catch the wolves, the polar bears will totally do the job for us and eat them for breakfast.

[Bes]

Well, we've got plenty of food, water and other good stuff. We could just hunker down for a while, wait for a rescue team to come out, and let the police handle this whole mess. Don't get me wrong, I won't sleep easy knowin' we got a murderer on our hands, but I don't know that we're any safer for panicking...
------------------------------------

Sorry I'm late. I usually won't be on most days.

I wish I had more to contribute for the first day? I guess the only thing striking me is how a lot of Boro's arguments lean towards "Don't kill suspicious people, they might be gifted!" followed by backpedaling when someone carries that to it's logical conclusion... To be fair, I'm over simplifying that, and his argument has been fully qualified and then rejoined by people more awake that myself.

So... I guess that means I have nothing of value to contribute after all. Uhm.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever successfully forged an agreement to not place a lynch vote for the first day? It seems like a succinct solution to the dilemma, but the odds of getting all of the players to actually agree to it seems very low.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nope. Unfortunate as it may turn out to be should we lynch an innocent, the voting record is remarkably useful on the following Day.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Bes

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever successfully forged an agreement to not place a lynch vote for the first day? It seems like a succinct solution to the dilemma, but the odds of getting all of the players to actually agree to it seems very low.

Reduce our small chance of nabbing a wolf to no chance nabbing a wolf...

I think not.

The vote is the one powerful tool we as a group have; if we give that up all we are are meaningless numbers. Yeah, we might screw things up, but at least we did something.

Plus as Roa said lynch votes can be really helpful for analysis, plus all that the wolves would have to do is give us a completely flusterworthy no-trace kill and we'd be back in the same pickle.

And if we want to translate this into numbers... the wolves (and, to an extent, the Ranger) already have control of who dies toNight. We control (and yes, there are wolves in our number, but in this case they are just four among many) who dies toDay.

So, interesting idea (and definitely, I think, novel), but you wouldn't get me at least to go along with it.

[tromkehra]

Originally Posted by Bes

Well, we've got plenty of food, water and other good stuff. We could just hunker down for a while, wait for a rescue team to come out, and let the police handle this whole mess. Don't get me wrong, I won't sleep easy knowin' we got a murderer on our hands, but I don't know that we're any safer for panicking....

Well that's the thing, do we know if our ability to communicate with anyone outside this boat is even possible? Because if not then shouldn't we make plans now to get in contact with someone? I agree that we can't panic, but we need to be smart about what our options are.