WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Mnemosyne]

Boro, that seems like a relatively safe assumption to make (which, considering that we don't have much information right now, is about all we have to go off of).

But I don't see how it does us much good, aside from giving us some non-Gifteds, because what kind of false wolvish idiot would decide to switch strategies like that?

And not to mention... (here's another one for the bookwriters) There was a day, early in the Werewolf years of this forum, when gifteds simply didn't reveal.

Which led to really interesting moments when people would say things like, "Tell us, Not-Seer, who do you think is a wolf? Who do you think is innocent?" (That person died the next day.) Or one of my favorites, "If you don't vote for X, vote for me, because I'm not the hunter and I won't take him down when I die!"

[/nostalgia]

However, I'm not sure if that ever held true when people were about to die. But different people have different approaches. The game that I modded had a triple-lynch between a wolf, a Ranger, and an ordo. If memory serves me correctly, the Ranger did not reveal. (This was Pitchwife, so if you'd care to back me up on this...)

So, yes, safe assumption for now, but not failproof.

At any rate, anyone who didn't reveal when on the chopping block before but does so afterwards is asking to be disbelieved.

[Mnemosyne]

I should add that Roa's departure puts paid to my theory that she and Nog were our gifteds staging an uprising. Phooey.

Which does mean back to the drawing board with His Nogness himself...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

But different people have different approaches. The game that I modded had a triple-lynch between a wolf, a Ranger, and an ordo. If memory serves me correctly, the Ranger did not reveal. (This was Pitchwife, so if you'd care to back me up on this...)

Yep, that was me, and for the reasons stated above. (The other lynchee was Zil, unsurprisingly.)

[satansaloser2005]

Hmph. And I'd planned to analyze Roa too. Well, onto other things then I suppose.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

But I don't see how it does us much good, aside from giving us some non-Gifteds, because what kind of false wolvish idiot would decide to switch strategies like that?

Mostly just wishful thinking on my part . Also when I had that in mind I was thinking of an earlier game when wolf-Mac was in trouble he faked a ranger-claim, and was wondering if Mac is a wolf here, fully aware of possibly getting lynched would he do it again.

It might not prove anything useful, but it does make me less paranoid with considering voting for Inzil and lynching him for real today.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Mac (for Inzil 4)
I can’t help suspecting him as we think in many cases the opposite people innocent and I can’t see the point of his “how people reacted to Boro” –stuff as it looked like so random… but his vote is more than understandable (which doesn’t say anything the way or another).

Wait a second...am I seeing a rather major inconsistancy here? Weren't you just going after Roa for her reaction and misrepresentation of what I said? Now you suspecting are Mac for looking the people who reacted, and don't see the point in doing it?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Now you suspecting are Mac for looking the people who reacted, and don't see the point in doing it?

Ok this is so chalk-full of grammatical errors that I can't even justify fixing it...You should be able to get the question out of that mess, but I'll just leave it as is and shake my head at myself.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Ok this is so chalk-full of grammatical errors that I can't even justify fixing it...You should be able to get the question out of that mess, but I'll just leave it as is and shake my head at myself.

Heh... It took me some time to make it... I think... but I never understood your point anyway. All Greek to me.

I mean I thought Roa was jumping on you to make you look suspicious - and that looked like a targeted thing. But Mac tried to introduce a kind of general "interpretive net" from the basis of which anyone reacting (or not reacting) to you could be said being suspicious (which is not only baseless but also ridiculous).

Or did you have something else in mind?

[Boromir88]

Nienna:
#8 shocks but likes Nog's different behavior. Doesn't want early reveals.
#60 agrees with Mac about people jumpin' on me, likes seeing Nog return to old form. Says she's trying really hard not to spite-suspect Lommy, for suspecting her for no reason.
#154 Lommy feels the worst but doesn't vote for her. Thinks Nog and Roa are both probably innocent. Doesn't know what to think of Mac or me. Won't vote for Morsul.
#165 would prefer Inzil over Mac or Mnemo.
#170 responds to Lommy saying Inzil doesn't seem like a good vote. Lommy voted for Mnemo and Nienna said "neither does Mnemo."
#174 votes Inzil. (3/4)

Nienna's looking better today than what I said yesterday. Which I hope dear you can accept this apology, when I said #60 looked like a "half-[bleep] attempt to contribute something" I kind of missed the first part where you said you had work in 5 minutes. That's why it looked rushed.

But I do have a few questions for you...if Lommy looked the worst to you, why not vote for her? Why did you say you wouldn't vote for Morsul at all? And why didn't Mnemo look like a good lynch to you? K-thanks.

Morsul:
#55 says I'm the only one who jumps at the moment. I think he misreads what I say, but thinks I look "more thoughtful than deceitful."
#59 responds to Mac's #57 and starts suspecting him.
#61 disagrees with Mac saying I would have dropped the argument faster if I was a wolf.
#64 personally places less faith in votes than others
#65 figures out the DL and says he can't around, thus will have to vote early.
#69 says that I look more reasonable, Mac makes him uncomfortable and votes him.
#70 defends what he said about voting in #64

I'm putting Morsul in the "innocent" category for right now. Due to circumstances he votes early, and for an early vote it looks pretty good and carefully considered, eventhough I don't think Mac is suspicious. Plus it appears that his comment about placing less faith in votes (#64) stirred up some discussion and suspicion.

I'm not sure why people thought that post was suspicious, or as Shasta put "wishy-washy." It's something I agree with, which is why having people's reasons for their votes more important. They are useful and needed bits of information, but Morsul's right, they can be easily manipulated by the wolves. Maybe in Night 1 there isn't much discussion besides a general strategy. However, after that night time discussions usually do include not only who to kill, but how they will go about the following day. This includes voting, for instance, if one of the wolves is possibly going to get lynched, who will they vote for, who they'll try to get suspicion focused on, and sometimes when they will place their votes. So, I don't understand why people had a problem with Morsul saying he doesn't place as much faith in votes as what others seem to.

It's 8 and I'm late for something relatively important, this means that I will have to finish on sally, Greenie, Shasta, and Nerwen later.

[wilwarin538]

I am here, for the next like hour or so (cause I need sleep bad), so I'll be able to read up on yesterday and then comment a bit, but most of my participation will be tomorrow since I only have 1 class, so you should see more of me then.

So reading, then comments, give me a bit...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I mean since we all thought someone would die, Mac and Inzil must have both been aware they were in trouble of getting lynched. And since they were aware of this, but did not come out with any reveal, can we assume that they aren't gifted and if they are in danger of being lynched again, and do "reveal" that it is false?

No. I think that could only apply where one person was definitely going to get it... and in practice, not even then, as WW history shows. I don't think it's a good idea to assume anything either way.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also when I had that in mind I was thinking of an earlier game when wolf-Mac was in trouble he faked a ranger-claim, and was wondering if Mac is a wolf here, fully aware of possibly getting lynched would he do it again.

*shrugs* Yes, but he had all Day to prepare for that one.

EDIT:X'd with Wilwa.

[Macalaure]

Having read the comments so far, I will have a close look at Pitch (others agreed with my concerns) and Mnemo (several good points against her).


Unsurprisingly, there's been a lot of talk about myself. I thought I defended myself sufficiently yesterday already, but I guess I'll revisit it. I hope I'll be able to leave it at that from then on.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I can’t see the point of his “how people reacted to Boro” –stuff as it looked like so random…

Here's the simple explanation. As everyone knows, any reasons to suspect anyone are horribly sparse early on Day1. That's why the lists that Inzil and I made were so void of things worthy to be said. The first interesting thing to happen was, well, Boro's statements and the whole lot of reactions to him. I was eager to gather anything remotely meaningful, to find something which enabled me to put some pressure on a few people. Did I expect that short analysis to provide much insight? Not really, but I hoped that it would stir some discussion and that that would provide it (and, yes, people suspecting me for it is valuable, too, at least from my perspective). The fact that it's still being discussed now kind of confirms it.

Did I say simple?

Originally Posted by Pitch

But in that very list, you said:
...
when the only thing you had posted before that yourself was in-character roleplay.

You misunderstand me. I didn't mean that I had posted better stuff before, but that Inzil seemed to be doing the "looking helpful without being helpful" thing. (That's just what I thought then.)

Originally Posted by Pitch

although I'm curious what you would have considered an innocent reaction to the discussion

After my first list, in the very same post, I also made a list of people who weren't suspicious by their reactions.

[Pitchwife]

Mac, I notice I haven't responded to your defense against my 'double standard' accusation yesterDay. OK, so your first list was perhaps marginally more substantial than Zil's, though you still thought it 'pointless' yourself. But in that very list, you said:

Originally Posted by Mac in #27

Inzil says nothing that tries to look like something. Suspicious. Unfortunately, empirical knowledge tells me that I'm always led to believe he's guilty and then he's not.

when the only thing you had posted before that yourself was in-character roleplay.
OK, that 'suspicion' had an in-built reservation in the next sentence, so I wouldn't have made that much of it, if not for your subsequent wavering.
By the way, I didn't find your position in the Boroversy that suspicious, so far as your defense of Boro goes - although I'm curious what you would have considered an innocent reaction to the discussion, other than simply ignoring it, i.e. staying out of the only substantial discussion there was at the time.
As for the apparent bandwagoning, it irks me myself, as I rather prefer staying out of Day 1 bandwagons. But I had reasons for my vote, which I'd given before, and while they may not have been the best, they haven't really been invalidated since.

But I'd like to avoid tunnel vision and take a closer look at some other people, too. The Zilwagon, which came pretty much out of nowhere in my view, could do with some inspection, for example. Unfortunately it's bedtime again, and worktime after that, so I'll have to postpone it until later in the Day.
See you.