WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Sally True You haven't posted much but what you have feels fuller to me than your earlier game posts...

Ah, you were speaking of me. Sorry, I thought you were implying that Nerwen had been more helpful toDay than I, which seemed a bit rude considering that I hadn't been around. *headdesks* Misunderstanding there, sorry.

[Morsul the Dark]

I reread the post and said to myself "That doesn't mak sense I mean Sally" That's why I reposted it more clearly

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I reread the post and said to myself "That doesn't mak sense I mean Sally" That's why I reposted it more clearly

Works for me. I've been a bit tired anyway so it makes sense that I misread it.



Now onto wolf-catching, eh?

[Thinlómien]

Hey people I just realised that if Lottie's a wolf we actually have three wolves around... not a nice idea.

This might be crazy, but I actually feel like lynching Lottie to sure. Like somebody said, this is the Day to try it out, if there is one.

I could also go for Sally or Brinn, preferably the latter. Pardon my self-centered theories again, but if Lottie was a known-innocent pretending wolf, it would be easy and good-looking for Brinnwolf to side with her and it would be convenient for them to join forces against an innocent (me) to get her lynched.

But then again, I will vote anyone to save myself, as yesterDay...

PS. Hey - pardon self-centered theories again - but considering how Lottie and Brinn joined forces to get me lynched and how Bes voted me on the last minute out of nowhere (combined with all the Lottie-Bes stuff Nogrod just presented), I wouldn't be surprised if our remaining wolves were Lottie+Bes+Brinn. Not sure what they'd achieve by getting me lynched, though, but I guess I'm just saying that with one "known innocent" and one newbie, they can quite effectively pull it off with co-operating openly....


edit: xed with several

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Interesting that Morsul is starting to backtrack on Sally... after voting her.

"Let's lynch Sally, but if she's innocent, know that I actually didn't suspect her!"

I also find it extremely fascinating that Boro is willing to pull a complete 180, not only on Bes, but on Lottie as well, from saying she's a "known innocent" to "let's lynch her today", based solely on a (unproven) theory by Nog that may or may not be true.

Honestly, I think I'd rather lynch Boro today than Lommy, but that's probably not going to happen.

Edit: X'ed with Lommy.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

And just as I'm ready to vote for Lommy, she brings up a point I'd forgotten about - Bes's vote yesterday. It flew in out of nowhere and I couldn't see why - but a Bes-Brinn-Lottie theory makes a certain kind of morbid sense... gah. It's 27 minutes to DL, much too late in the day to be throwing around things like this to make my head hurt.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And just as I'm ready to vote for Lommy, she brings up a point I'd forgotten about - Bes's vote yesterday. It flew in out of nowhere and I couldn't see why - but a Bes-Brinn-Lottie theory makes a certain kind of morbid sense... gah. It's 27 minutes to DL, much too late in the day to be throwing around things like this to make my head hurt.

Poor precious. I'll save you some aspirin, shall I?

[satansaloser2005]

It's too blankity-blank quiet around here. Let's kill some blankity-blank werewolves!

[Nogrod]

Bes then... (part 2)

He looks so confused the first Days that no newbie should be... I'm not sure if it's theatre or real confusion.

Suggests what if no one voted on D1, says he waits for a PM from the mod to clear rules to him, explains his vote on Mac, makes an analysis on Mac, decides not to vote (D2) as could not form an opinion...

Then reacts to Lottie's revealment of her role...

If she's telling the truth, then she's put herself in a perfect position to get night killed, and (if I understand how it works properly) be prevented from ever revealing her dream. Waiting until tomorrow to reveal and telling everyone what she dreamed would have easily prevented that, and I don't think the suspicion against her is sufficient at the moment for lynching to be a big concern for her. Which makes me think that this is a false reveal by a nervous wolf, following up an easy vote on someone that's been stumbling over his own feet through the game so far.

Now this looks like genuinely confused...

I don't agree with the notion that Lottie's reveal makes sense, since as has been mentioned and re-mentioned, her being lynched today before she made that post was hardly likely. If she's a wolf, then this would be a good way to get the Ranger out of the way, so if a real seer pops up later they would have no defense against accidental lynching.
I need to make a vote today, so at the risk of looking suspicious my vote goes for Lottie. I'd ask if lynching her could prevent the Ranger from potentially being lost to a false seer, which is my hope, but by the time I will be able to read the answer the night will have begun.

Like this...

Votes Lottie anyway.

Then comes the crucial Day4 (after N4 when Lottie dreamt / changed?).

He starts with more confusion about the roles (is he playing us for a fool or is he seriously that far off the rules one could read from anywhere?)

but I didn't realize that the Ranger doesn't actually die when they protect someone who gets attacked in the night

Wait. So a seer chooses who to dream about? Like, even if they're a real seer?

Originally Posted by Bes after Lottie's reveal

I'm having trouble coming up with anything like a decent counter to the arguments that favor voting Pitch today. As has been stated by others, if Pitch isn't a wolf, then Lottie will get lynched tomorrow and that's still a wolf down (probably). If Pitch is a wolf, apologies and thanks are in order, if only on my part, to Lottie. We lose Pitch, of course, and that's sad if he's innocent, but apparently how the game is played. Sorry Pitch.

D5 & 6

He suddenly seems to get the hang of it... mainly to defend himself (from basically nonexistant suspicions...

Gets really odd again with the "Birthday dreamer" stuff...


I'm getting crazy with him!

Soo confused and out of everything... and here and there clearly seeing what's going on (already in the earlier Days, not only on the last ones).

[Thinlómien]

So, who are you considering for vote, everybody?

I would prefer Lottie or Brinn, but I'm okay with Bes or Sally too.

Basically I'm ok with everything that's not me, but I wouldn't feel too happy about lynching Shasta or Boro, as they seem quite innocent to me.


edit: xed with two sallies and one nogroar

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nog and Lommy?

Bes, Brinn, and Lottie?

Lommy and Boro?

Sally and Morsul?

Ugh.

Edit: X'ed with Sally, Nogrod, and Lommy.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

All in all I think this discussion of Lottie is beneficial yet also wasted; the only way to find out what she is or is not is to lynch her, and frankly I'd like to lynch a better candidate toDay since I don't have the time at this stage in the Day to look at everything regarding her in-depth. I'm not saying that I trust her completely nor that I think she is evil, but I'm torn enough on the subject of her honesty and allegiance that I don't think it's a good idea to kill her toDay.

I disagree, it's something that's worth the risk. If we're wrong, we lose an innocent, and not to sound heartless but that isn't as damaging as going for another candidate and risk lynching/dragging out one of the gifteds. If we're wrong about Lottie, we maintain our 2 gifteds and overall the situation is still pretty good.

Plus, since there has been lots of talk about it, if Lottie is an innocent the wolves aren't going to do us a favor in kill her. So, essentially you will be stuck with the same decision you're faced with today. Maybe it's only because I've had more time to brood over this than you, but I do not want to be in the same situation tomorrow, especially if we don't get a wolf. Because then we would be pretty much forced to lynch Lottie, and if we are wrong, that puts us in a dire much catch wolf situation.

If Lottie is a wolf, there is a huge pay-off. We've figured out the wolves plan and this answers questions about Bes, as well as whether this suspecting Lommy business was wolv-foolery or not.

[satansaloser2005]

I was thinking last Night....what if we have a father-daughter wolf team?


I'd go for Bes, Lommie, and Brinn. Really no particular order on the first two now so if people did want to let Lommie go I'd give my reluctant approval.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I disagree, it's something that's worth the risk. If we're wrong, we lose an innocent, and not to sound heartless but that isn't as damaging as going for another candidate and risk lynching/dragging out one of the gifteds. If we're wrong about Lottie, we maintain our 2 gifteds and overall the situation is still pretty good.

Plus, since there has been lots of talk about it, if Lottie is an innocent the wolves aren't going to do us a favor in kill her. So, essentially you will be stuck with the same decision you're faced with today. Maybe it's only because I've had more time to brood over this than you, but I do not want to be in the same situation tomorrow, especially if we don't get a wolf. Because then we would be pretty much forced to lynch Lottie, and if we are wrong, that puts us in a dire much catch wolf situation.

If Lottie is a wolf, there is a huge pay-off. We've figured out the wolves plan and this answers questions about Bes, as well as whether this suspecting Lommy business was wolv-foolery or not.

You do have a point. I'm just not comfortable with it is all.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Suspected at the beginning of the day - Lommy, Nogrod, Boro
Suspect now - Bes, Lottie
Don't really suspect - Brinn
Under radar - Sally, Morsul, Nerwen

That's a VERY rough list of how I'm feeling right now. I don't think I've ever been so indecisive.

Edit: X'ed with Boro, Sally, Sally.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I disagree, it's something that's worth the risk. If we're wrong, we lose an innocent, and not to sound heartless but that isn't as damaging as going for another candidate and risk lynching/dragging out one of the gifteds. If we're wrong about Lottie, we maintain our 2 gifteds and overall the situation is still pretty good.

Plus, since there has been lots of talk about it, if Lottie is an innocent the wolves aren't going to do us a favor in kill her. So, essentially you will be stuck with the same decision you're faced with today. Maybe it's only because I've had more time to brood over this than you, but I do not want to be in the same situation tomorrow, especially if we don't get a wolf. Because then we would be pretty much forced to lynch Lottie, and if we are wrong, that puts us in a dire much catch wolf situation.

If Lottie is a wolf, there is a huge pay-off. We've figured out the wolves plan and this answers questions about Bes, as well as whether this suspecting Lommy business was wolv-foolery or not.

Quite a change from yesterDay, isn't it, Boro?

[Nogrod]

Let me add Shasta (because of some interactions with Lottie & Bes) and Boro (coolly opportunistic = if my theory of Lottie is wrong lynch him! )...

But really Lottie would do... or Bes.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Sally

if people did want to let Lommie go I'd give my reluctant approval

I'm all for that option!

Now I'm thinking... if there are three wolves now, there's seven innocents. But if we lynch an innocent toDay and one dies next Night, it's a 5-3 situation and that is rather scary... so I'm thinking we really probably might have to lynch Lottie toDay just to make sure there are not three wolves, because if there are, the game is pretty lost already tomorrow because there's such a high amount of wolves and if they team up and get an innocent lynched, they win...


edit: xed with two shastas and one nog

[Nogrod]

Okay. Let's try Lottie?

It's the most information we can gather...

What's the tally?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Now that I think about it, Nog's theory makes a bit more sense than just a one-shot dreamer, for a super-secret role, I mean.

Edit: X'ed with Lommy and Nogrod.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm all for that option!

Heh. I bet you are.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, this last-half-hour bandwagon swing towards Lottie stinks of something.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I also find it extremely fascinating that Boro is willing to pull a complete 180, not only on Bes, but on Lottie as well, from saying she's a "known innocent" to "let's lynch her today", based solely on a (unproven) theory by Nog that may or may not be true.

Let me say this again to get it through your thick-head.

It's a risk worth taking today because of the odds. And today is not yesterday. Yesterday I was trying to challenge Lottie to make the wolves regret not killing her (because I was under the impression they didn't see her as a threat even as a known innocent). Now, there's been new info about the secret-role today which has changed my mind. Yet again, let me point out that at least my 180 fits because I was presented with a new viewpoint that contradicted my previous thoughts about Lottie. Bes, was presented with something that supported his distrust of Lottie a few days ago, but somehow switched.

Bottomline is with Lottie we either get a wolf, and have discovered their plans. Or an innocent and lose a day, which may sound heartless, but we still maintain the 2-gifteds and know about Lottie for sure. (Plus the more information we can gain by finding out). This is a risk where the odds of being correct is a huge pay off, and being wrong isn't all that bad.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let me add Shasta (because of some interactions with Lottie & Bes) and Boro (coolly opportunistic = if my theory of Lottie is wrong lynch him! )...

Haha, I was just thinking "if we lynch Lottie and she's innocent, we had better do something about Nog and Boro the Day after!" So, great minds think alike? Although it's really always a bit questionable to draw very straightforward conclusions like that...

edit: xed with all

[Nogrod]

++ Lottie

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Now, there's been new info about the secret-role today which has changed my mind.

WRONG. You can't declare Nogrod's theory concrete information and base decisions off it.

Edit: X'ed with Nogrod.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. Let's try Lottie?

It's the most information we can gather...

What's the tally?

I'm for that, but don't expect me to vote early, I have my own skin to think about... *sigh*

I think the tally is me 2, Sally 1.


edit:xed with all again

[Nogrod]

Sorry... I tried to "preview" to see whether there were new posts and hit the submit button...

Well I meant to do that anyway...

[Boromir88]

Damn I hope you're right or I'm a dead man.

++Lottie

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

WRONG. You can't declare Nogrod's theory concrete information and base decisions off it.

The theory is not, but the previous rules about the role sort of are...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Alright, this last-half-hour bandwagon swing towards Lottie stinks of something.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

Seconded. If she's a wolf, great, but if not I'll be really REALLY unhappy.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Haha, I was just thinking "if we lynch Lottie and she's innocent, we had better do something about Nog and Boro the Day after!" So, great minds think alike? Although it's really always a bit questionable to draw very straightforward conclusions like that...

edit: xed with all

Something like that. I'll still be after you though, precious.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

WRONG. You can't declare Nogrod's theory concrete information and base decisions off it.

Edit: X'ed with Nogrod.

Seconded again.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Alright, this last-half-hour bandwagon swing towards Lottie stinks of something.

It's not the last half an hour thing for me at least Shasta... I've spent quite a lot of time with it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

In fact I think that's what bothers me the most about this bandwagon - has anyone considered the opposite side of this coin? Like, for instance, we lose a Gifted (because that's what Lottie is, no matter if she's used her gift up or not), and the wolves succeed in making us waste a lynch on her. Haven't we been discussing that the wolves don't dare kill Lottie? If Nog is wrong about Lottie, this whole manuever fits right into their plans.

Edit: X'ed with Lommy, Nog, Boro, Sally, Nog.

[Thinlómien]

++Lottie

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

In fact I think that's what bothers me the most about this bandwagon - has anyone considered the opposite side of this coin? Like, for instance, we lose a Gifted (because that's what Lottie is, no matter if she's used her gift up or not), and the wolves succeed in making us waste a lynch on her. Haven't we been discussing that the wolves don't dare kill Lottie? If Nog is wrong about Lottie, this whole manuever fits right into their plans.

Shasta, what do you think about trying for Bes? Or Lommie?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The theory is not, but the previous rules about the role sort of are...

So you can read Legate's mind, then?

Edit: X'ed with Lommy and Sally. Bes for me is a byproduct of all this Lottie suspicion, so...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

In fact I think that's what bothers me the most about this bandwagon - has anyone considered the opposite side of this coin? Like, for instance, we lose a Gifted (because that's what Lottie is, no matter if she's used her gift up or not), and the wolves succeed in making us waste a lynch on her. Haven't we been discussing that the wolves don't dare kill Lottie? If Nog is wrong about Lottie, this whole manuever fits right into their plans.

Yes but at least we don't lose a working gifted or (sorry to say) an innocent who contributes a lot (for the past few Days, Lottie hasn't made any real points, just said I'm suspicious and vote me. We can afford to lose an innocent who is not putting her time to think about different options.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The theory is not, but the previous rules about the role sort of are...

Yes, but this isn't the same game.


I don't like it when people think they can read the mod's brain. Makes me think they know something they wouldn't if they were innocent.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

WRONG. You can't declare Nogrod's theory concrete information and base decisions off it.

Cool down Shasta... I hope it's not semantics again... I don't think Boro said it was "concrete information". To me at least it is a perfectly believable hypothesis that should be checked. If we had three wolves we really should get rid of one toDay - and we're wrong, as Boro said, we can afford to lose an inncent just to be sure. And what would be the gains if we got it right?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I can't in good conscience go along with this at the moment.

++Lommy

Edit: X'ed with Nogrod.