Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Folwren]

The offence wasn't private, and nor was there any question about who did it. They weren't concerned with why he did, only that he shouldn't have done it. So, I think that they didn't need witnesses.

You're right - we forgot Aedre altogether. Oh well.

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I agree, though, that Aedre does deserve some form of punisment.

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Folwren

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I'm thinking of a Benjamin Franklin saying when I mentioned humiliation: "It is perfectly acceptable to humiliate people in private, they might even thank you for it later. However, when you do it in public they tend to think you are serious." Love Mr. BF.

Originally Posted by Foley

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Nogrod, you ready to post Lithor's trial next?

[Folwren]

Indeed, Groin, that is why you should never give me absolute power in a character because I would soooo take advantage of that proverb...if it can be called a proverb. My power-holding character would be so corrupted.

[Nogrod]

Groin: good to see you posting but I have a few questions for you...

The next one is from the thread and I think there is something quite odd there. Now who's talking / thinking and where - I mean the underlined part?

However, the trial was not a total shamble. Quartermaster was not a bad job for an elderly soldier to have and Lithor was content with it. Thornden had been spared and for the most part Athanar’s sons had been spared, apart from being assigned job and a momentary scolding. Balvir and Matrim immediately came to join Lithor and offer their condolences. Let us be thankful, the misunderstanding was not worse. Quartermaster is not such a bad job really. At least the younger newcomers will not have to answer to him. Balvir, you are now my superior. Was it fair? It did not matter. Few things in this life are.
“Quit whining and accept it.” Lithor said his eyes fixed on Wulfric and Wulheard, lost in thought. “The one constellation is that I will be able to keep an eye on his sons.”

Secondly I'd think that Balvir (48y.), a sergeant of Gondor, would understand where lord Athanar is coming from and act accordingly - even if he wishes to be nice with / is a friend of Lithor.

Thirdly; have you thought of those peasants you wrote in a few days ago? I think there are no such figures around and the few comments here have confirmed it. It's always nasty to ask someone to remove something from the story but sorry, there are no such peasants around - and no outside camp-fires etc.


On a general note: I'm happy in general to see people have adopted new NPC's / side-characters from the ranks of the newcomers. That's good and something I'd warmly recommend to anyone.

But it seems you have only picked up some jerks and idiots... Looking at Groin's last post about those non-existent peasants brings the vision of PJ in the movie of the Prancing Pony to mind, like all Breelanders were baddies or half-wits...

Now lord Athanar, if he had peasants following him (which he doesn't), would have kicked that kind of guys off a long time ago. In that kind of society a lord is the one who has the chance to choose and will mercilessly leave the dim-wits or aggressors to suffer on their own and only bear with good people.

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around...

So what I'm kind of missing are the "good guys"...

Lord Athanar is a high lord of the eorlingas, trusted by king Eomer, a war hero and a renowned leader from the Pelennor Fields. So his soldiers are not the lowest of the mob but among the best there is in whole Rohan. We can have one or two specialities to make twists to the storyline (like Aforglaed or Scyrr) but the overwhelming majority of them should be something like "on the level of Thornden" - if that helps you gain the picture.

So hero-characters available! Finders' keepers'!

The young and a bit insecure Baldwic (son of Baldwin) and the firmer & older Feargall come to mind... (see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=614847) and others can be come up with.


Anyway, let's go forwards! Soonish...


How are your timetables, "Bostonmooters" & "Praguemooters"? Should we make a general pause for a few days or how are your scheduals?

[Folwren]

Thornden's so much your general 'good guy' that I really don't want to take on another. Saeryn is also pretty much understanding and Javan's my only outlet of 'fun'. So I will continue my passive position on this and not take any more characters....though maybe it would be a good thing if I created a sort of NPC.
That would be fun. Then I wouldn't have to keep writing him, but I'd be able to develop him enough for others to use...hm hoom. Good thoughts. Thanks for the nudge, Nogrod.

I might post something in the near future, especially if I plan to form a 'good' NPC. I guess Thornden will need to go to the drill, too, so I could always post for him. But I don't know exactly what is happening, and as Thornden is not in charge, I feel no particular urge to figure out/decide what IS going to happen. So I may wait on writing a post for him...maybe until Dury or whoever is actually in charge (Legate?) writes a post or posts something here.

K, I've babbled on about very little for too long. Byea.

-- Foley

EDIT: P.S. I remembered something just now and decided I could take the opportunity and be one of those bratty little teacher's pet people who raises hand after the teacher scolds the class and says something to the effect of, "I've done it right, Miss Prism" with an innocent little face...

I did create a respectful NPC in a post long ago, who addressed Saeryn when Saeryn discovered Lord Athanar's horse in Flithaf's stall. Saeryn demanded what horse is this, and the soldier stood up from grooming his horse, stepped forward slightly, and politely responded. So, see, we do have some nice people involved.

[Durelin]

I'll do my best to post today to start off with the soldiers.

What does everyone have in mind for these 'exercises'?

A good, long march; weapons drills...?

And what I've been wondering and keep forgetting to ask about is if these soldiers are foot-soldiers or cavalry, or mounted foot soldiers. I'm guessing at least the latter, because this is Rohan. Every soldier knows how to enter battle on a horse. So maybe they can do riding drills.

Think I'm going to have to do a little bit of research, hehe.

Though I know we don't have to have specific, technical detail or anything. I understand how to fudge things...

[Groin Redbeard]

Groin: good to see you posting but I have a few questions for you...

Uh oh. Question? Doesn’t sound good.

The next one is from the thread and I think there is something quite odd there. Now who's talking / thinking and where - I mean the underlined part?

Lithor is thinking aloud. I did not introduce any other characters, besides Erbrand, so I thought it would be obvious (ergo, the reference to Lithor being lost in thought). Sorry.

Thirdly; have you thought of those peasants you wrote in a few days ago? I think there are no such figures around and the few comments here have confirmed it. It's always nasty to ask someone to remove something from the story but sorry, there are no such peasants around - and no outside camp-fires etc.

Uh… those peasants who don't exist are Girth and Hamrod. Sorry, I thought they existed, obviously not. The other “peasants” are the inhabitants of Scarburg listed in the post. Possibly one or two NPC characters as well, but that was not my intention.

As for the campfires and the kettles, that is a traditional Medieval/Dark Age way of eating (after all, Tolkien did model Rohan after the Anglo-Saxon culture). The kettle contains vegetables, roots, meats, and is constantly being added to as the days progressed, never depleting, never overflowing. The term “potluck” is derived from this eating style. I thought this fitted the bleakest time of the year (winter) well, I guess not. Peasant life wasn’t not exactly a bundle of roses. Ow! Thorns!

But it seems you have only picked up some jerks and idiots... Looking at Groin's last post about those non-existent peasants brings the vision of PJ in the movie of the Prancing Pony to mind, like all Breelanders were baddies or half-wits...

First you blow one of my funnest characters out of the water, possibly ruining his chances from here on, and now you call my NEW characters jerks and idiots!? Yes, that large fellow holding the sausage in my post was Girth. What do you expect a man with a name like his to be holding, granola bars? Sounds to me as if Nogrod have some prejudices against peasants. Girth and Hamrod might not be as witty as some characters but they are mine and I love them. *sniff*

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around...

Soldiers, how can you compare those buffoons to peasants? Peasants have way more class. And now you are corrupting Aforglaed. He is not supposed to be a baddy!

So what I'm kind of missing are the "good guys"...

Is that a burn? I think that was a burn. Ohhhh! Your gonna get yours.

Now lord Athanar, if he had peasants following him (which he doesn't), would have kicked that kind of guys off a long time ago. In that kind of society a lord is the one who has the chance to choose and will mercilessly leave the dim-wits or aggressors to suffer on their own and only bear with good people.

Cold, Nogrod, really cold.

Lord Athanar is a high lord of the eorlingas, trusted by king Eomer, a war hero and a renowned leader from the Pelennor Fields.

He also beats up on peasants in his spare time.

So his soldiers are not the lowest of the mob but among the best there is in whole Rohan.

Just look at their freshly pressed golden hair. More perfume peasant boy.

We can have one or two specialities to make twists to the storyline (like Aforglaed or Scyrr) but the overwhelming majority of them should be something like "on the level of Thornden" - if that helps you gain the picture.

Yes, we get the picture: clone Thornden and beat up pig farmers!

So hero-characters available! Finders' keepers'!

In other words, pig farmers are far from heroic and Hamrod doesn’t meet your approval as NPC. Hmmph!

Originally Posted by Folwren

So, see, we do have some nice people involved.

Foley! Not you too!

All kidding aside, I'll edit my post.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Durelin

What does everyone have in mind for these 'exercises'?
A good, long march; weapons drills...?

Well it's up to you Dury & Foley how you would make of it... Maybe some excercises with riding-in-formations and changing them, some games like the jousting in the middle-ages eg. riding against a dummy that swirls around; or wrestling, sword-fights (with wooden swords preferably), tactical manouvers (how to fight in different scenarios, like one against two, two against three etc.). So like basic practise - but aiming at the same time to unite the soldiers.

Your call!

And yes Dury, they're cavalry and most of their exercises should be on horseback, but they should also practise fighting on the ground as well.

[Folwren]

I think I thought of something to write last night, so today I hope to have time to write it. Harrah!

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Well, I have spent some time in the real world (actually read Tolkien books again) and I decide that I like it too much to return to the land of the dead. I hope that you will forgive me if I write one last post to sum up my characters. I could not resist giving them happy endings. All but Lithor and Erbrand—that story is up in the air if they are caught or not—however, that is up to ya’ll. Although the soldier’s are going to drill, I could not resist having Erbrand have one more brawl before he leaves. Sorry if I beat him up too much, but that can be ignored if you wish. I won’t be here to criticize it.

This tale has been fun to weave and I am sure that it will continue to be fun, despite my absence. I’ll be praying for every one of ya’ll, pray for me.

Goodbye,
~Groin Redbeard

[Mnemosyne]

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Seconded.

[Nogrod]

What on earth?

OMG


Okay. I feel both blame and being insulted at the same time. I'll send Groin a PM tomorrow (it's late today and I need to go to sleep).


But what I want to say publicly here is this.


We needed to remake the Mead Hall. There was no way we should have entered a lord similar to lord Eodwine into his place as lmp got out. To write a story one needs tensions and challenges. Who wishes to write about a normal life going fine as it has used to go? And don't get me wrong; the main feat of the Mead Hall has been the relations between people rather than achieving a goal or putting up a fight. And that's what's made me a fan of this. But this thread really needed some poking; to get the different characters to react to new conditions...

So I came up with lord Athanar who is different from lord Eodwine but still a good man, a staunch defender of Rohan, a true eorling war-hero, a part of the nobility of Rohan... And I wished to see how the characters of you old writers would learn to appreciate him - and surely how "the original Mead-Hallers" would change him and those who came with him!


Well, it seemingly crashed with Groin at least. And so early!

I'm very sad to see that - it was to be seen for some time though - but I never thought it was that serious. And as I say I do blame myself for it for being the introducer of that character he seemingly never got used to and decided to take it that way. But then again... my complaints I will leave for his eyes only, for now on. We'll see if we need to come back on them. Hopefully not.

Which doesn't mean I'd not love him back. On the contrary.

He has been a great writer of this Hall and I'll do whatever I can to get him back here - but to be dishonest with him.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

This tale has been fun to weave and I am sure that it will continue to be fun, despite my absence. I’ll be praying for every one of ya’ll, pray for me.

Goodbye,
~Groin Redbeard

Oh my...

There's really not much more to say...

[Folwren]

I finally got a post up, but it is still incomplete...at least, it's not as complete as I would like it to be. But time presses on me again, and I know not when I'll be able to write again, so I wanted to get it up, in case I do not have a chance before tomorrow. It at least starts the ball rolling...maybe...

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Okay, I've posted again...sorry...got a rush, I guess.

I have left an obvious opening for Athanar. I have also made it possible for Degas to be posted for. Also, in my first post, it is clear for any soldier to post, especially Coenred.

I think that's all I'll post for this evening. Looking forward to action again on this game.

-- Foley

[Gwathagor]

Man, I need to work harder at making Crabannan interact with other people. My introspection groove turned into a rut a while back, I think.

[Folwren]

Yeah, Crabannan does need to interact. The introverted posts are interesting, but I imagine you can only do so many of those before you burn out. I think it'd be fun if he and Javan started to get to know each other! I'm open and ready whenever you are.

-- Foley

[Gwathagor]

Good idea. Crabannan could be a bad influence, if you like.

[Folwren]

Well...he hardly needs a bad influence, but it would be interesting, nontheless. Sounds fun. Shall we try it?

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Wow, things have really been quiet aroud here, and a WW game isn't even in progress. That's...scary...

-- Foley

EDIT: That is to say, there's one in progress, but it hasn't started yet.

[Nogrod]

Sorry. I've been really busy as the spring semester started but I'll be writing something on the weekend...

[Nerindel]

Name: Matrim Astalder, Son of Lord Mordavim of Arnen


Age: 22 Race: Gondorian Gender: Male


Appearance: Matrim is of average height and build for a young man of the Arnen, he has a medium complexion and his hair is usually a mid golden brown but at the moment it is a dark golden colour as it was lemon rinsed so that he and Balvir could go among the Rohirrim without drawing to much attention. (At least until they spoke! :P As their strong Southern Gondorian accents would be quite difficult to mask.) His soft grey eyes convey a gentle calmness that belies the depth and strength of his emotions.

At present Matrim is dressed in the attire of that of a Rohirrim man at arms (again for afore mentioned reasons.) Belted about his waist and hanging at his left side is a gondorian long sword, with no sigils on the pommel and only a leather bound grip, it looks the same as any other, giving nothing away about the young man’s true rank and status but about his neck on a plain leather thong is a solid gold ring with the sigils of his house (Crossed sword and arrow for house Astalder against the white tree of gondor) which he keeps carefully hidden under his shirt.

Character/History: Nestled between the river Anduin and the road south to Harad, under the shadow of Emyn Arnen are the lands that Matrim calls home. Although born there he spent much of his younger years behind the protective walls of Minas Tirith, as it was a time of uncertainty and unrest with the dark shadow of Mordor infecting the land of his birth his grandfather (the then Lord of Arnen) thought it safe to move the women and children to the safety of the white city. While Matrim’s father and many of the young men of Arnen where called to aid Lord Faramir in northern Ithilien , his grandfather and what men he had left defended the people of the Arnen as best they could. Matrim was nine before they returned, were his father became the new Lord and they buried his grandfather, along with honouring all those who had died in the defence of the Arnen. The years passed quickly and like the lands of Arnen; Matrim flourished and grew into a fairly well disciplined and honourable young man, with not only a fine education in diplomacy and governance, but also at his father’s behest he trained under Captain Balvir to gain discipline and leadership skills with a small hope also to curb his son’s more impulsive and sometimes overly passionate nature. Currently Matrim is charged by his father to protect Lady Æðelhild during her temporary self imposed exile. So that he can gather evidence to disprove her uncles ludicious claims and prove her innocence beyond reproach and restore to her the comfort and security her late father and his best friend had always intended for her.

Here you go I finally figured out where I had put Mat's Bio, I hope it doesn't throw to much of a spanner in the works ;P now to catch up on the thread and see if I cannot re-introduce my troop into the story.

---------------------------------

Linked ~*~ Pio

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Though I'm home, I'm in no mental condition to even catch up just now. So I wanted to stop in and reinforce my statement that you guys can responsibly use my characters until my return, that I'll be back when I can, and that I look forward to having the time and energy to write blithely for fun again!

[Folwren]

A new character. What fun.

Name: Quin

Age/Gender/Race/Where From: 19. Male. Rohirrim. Edoras

Appearance: Average height, thinly built, blond hair, blue eyes, round, childish face.

Bits of Character/History You Might Fell Helpful In Defining the Character: Quin is shy and mild, most of the time. He is still feeling his way through life and figuring out who he is. This is his first time away from Edoras, and he’s a little intimidated. He wants to please, but he can be clumsy.

He was born in Edoras to a soldier and his wife. His father went to war when Rohan went to fight at the Pelennor fields, and he did not return. Quin was five years old at the time. His mother found work where she could, but it was difficult to support herself and her son. When he was ten, she approached lord Athanar, a man under whom her husband had fought during the war, and asked him if he would take Quin as a page, to bring him up and raise him to be an eorlinga. Athanar agreed, and when Quin turned eleven, he moved into Athanar’s household.

He worked hard during his time there, and as he grew older, he was trained in the art of war and weaponry. He did not like being separated from his mother at first, and he did not like Athanar’s sons, who are about the same age as he. However, he got over his homesickness and learned to live in his new environment. Lately he has been officially added to the men-at-arms and he's still unsure of himself.

- - - - - - - - - -

LINKED ~*~ Pio

[Nogrod]

Yay Foley! That turned out quite nice!

[Folwren]

In my last two posts I left openings for Gwathagor to write and Durelin. And also, I mentioned Aedhel coming into the mead hall.

-- Foley

[Nerindel]

I would like to write a post for Iomhair before I get back to Matrim and Aeol, but I am having trouble deciding where she would be. As Scribe she would have wanted to be present at the trials so that they could be documented, but as Scribes where usually trusted members of a lords household I'm not sure if Athanar would have permitted her to be present at such matters until he got to know her better. So the question is, do I write Iomhair's thoughts on the trial or make it more interesting by having her brood about not being permitted? Any thoughts?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerindel

I would like to write a post for Iomhair before I get back to Matrim and Aeol, but I am having trouble deciding where she would be. As Scribe she would have wanted to be present at the trials so that they could be documented, but as Scribes where usually trusted members of a lords household I'm not sure if Athanar would have permitted her to be present at such matters until he got to know her better. So the question is, do I write Iomhair's thoughts on the trial or make it more interesting by having her brood about not being permitted? Any thoughts?

It's probably good you raised the issue once again as I was not sure if it got clear between all these to and fro discussions and all the surprises...

So lord Athanar could have just called for Coenred and Thornden and give them executive orders to "punish" Javan & Lithor in the way he saw it fit as it is a domestic issue between the lord and his subordinates.

But as the situation was such a delicate one - well quite bad indeed - he decided he would create a hearing of sorts where he could show his leadership and fairness and make the decisions public.

So it was not a trial but a "hearing" where the people facing some consequences were allowed to speak for themselves before lord Athanar would bring on his verdict in public.

Looking at that, there would have been no reason for Athanar to ban or not permit Iomhair from attending. But neither was there any need to anyone act as a scribe to take notes of it. I think lord Athanar would have not paid attention to Iomhair actually as he's not probably even too aware of a scribe around there in the first place - so she could have attended or not and scribed something down or not.

So sory to not allow you the thrill of Athanar banning her from the hearings, but I can see no reason why he would have done that, as his intention was to make everything more open it would normally be.

We might think about the two meeting during this day fex.? Maybe when Athanar meets with the other Gondorians?

[Folwren]

Hm. I know patience is a virtue. But could I at least hear if someone was intending to post sometime? When they got inspiration? Or time? Or something? Fea, are you around? What about Nienna? Gwathagor? I know some people are busy in the WW game...but it's night now, so maybe someone will have a chance in the next twenty-two hours and forty-minutes to post (yeah, I keep tabs). Maybe?

Well...I'll go back to being patient.

-- Foley

[Gwathagor]

Yeah, I've been meaning to post, sorry. I'll try to get something up this weekend.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I know some people are busy in the WW game...but it's night now, so maybe someone will have a chance in the next twenty-two hours and forty-minutes to post (yeah, I keep tabs). Maybe?

I've been work-loaded for more than is good to my health so I haven't basically been able to play the werewolf either. Going to work early in the morning and going non-stop to 10-11 PM... But it should ease up a little now as a new week starts.

Lommy, Legate?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I am here and I still have about six or something posts to read (ugh... it was some job to read it until now anyway), but that's already the training and all... I think I could post something after that (possibly, or maybe likely, I will get some inspiration when reading it... and that's something where Hilderinc definitely could figure...)

Anyway, a few notes to what's been discussed here before, even though I don't want to raise the matter again. I think it's good to have put the fuss around Groin's characters to rest and wait for his response, which I hope will come and I hope the situation could be solved in some good manner.

A few notes, though, to things I have noticed on the way:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around...

First, I feel the need to step in for Scyrr here. Now if you read the posts both for Áforglaed and Scyrr (excluding Groin's last post, which I will speak about more below), I don't think they are really bad. I think they are open to interpretation, and whenever posting for Scyrr (as it had been really mostly me who was doing it), I was keeping him in lines of something Nogrod said on this thread just after Scyrr has been posted for the first time: something like "He's either rude... or maybe he's just straightforward about his opinions." Scyrr, in my vision for him (which left still 90% of him as blank spaces) was only this: slightly self-centered, not willing to see others' point of view and convinced that he is always in the right, and that those who are with "him" are always in the right (cf. his words to Hilderinc when there was this initial brawl: when the case was hushed up, Scyrr felt that the newcomers have been wronged, as it WAS the local soldier who had started the fight - i.e. did strike first - and Scyrr in his self-centeredness was just overlooking the fact that the soldier had been provoked. But that's all, I don't think that's any trait that would make him strikingly obviously wicked. Scyrr is also apparently blunt in his opinions, but certainly would watch his tongue when talking to his superior. And even if he was prone to not doing it, he would have learned by now that he cannot do it face to Athanar, if nothing else).

Same goes for Áforglaed - funnily enough, he may be even "worse" than Scyrr - but then, he seems a bit more "cowardly" (i.e. avoiding escalating the conflict if he can), which would explain how he would get away with whatever troubles he might cause. He seemed willing to admit his fault and accept consequences, if it meant saving him from something worse. He would be probably too afraid to dare to do anything too bad in front of the lord (and anyway, he does not seem to do anything evil by himself - more like "accidentally", or just by not watching his tongue enough etc).

Originally Posted by Loslote

Seriously, though, a place in the retinue of a nobleman, particularly one as important as Lord Athanar, would be an enviable position. No one with anything less than excellent credentials or character. Really, Aforglaed is toeing the line as to acceptable soldiers - he would have to be the son of a close friend of Athanar's (or Wynflaed's, I suppose).

The same goes for this. Now just let me see if you are not misinterpretating the poor people a bit I mean, what is so horrible about Áforglaed, too? He is certainly not a shiny example, he is perhaps a bit more negative than positive character, but still - only from what he has done this far - is he really that bad? I think maybe some of you have formed a box called "baddies" in your heads and after the guys have been thrown in there once, it's easy to label them as total baddies and interpretate all their actions in the worst way, but hey, the way I see them at least, they are not THAT horrible... I mean, they are negative, but not so that they would necessarily make me wonder how comes Athanar put such terrible people in his service... they are, to me, just "average bad soldiers, of which kind there are dozens"...

So that would be it for the "Apology of the Unknown Soldier" part... Although if Nog especially you think that the folks look weird from Athanar's POV, I would like to hear that, as the point is of course his perspective... but you didn't seem to protest in the beginning (quite the opposite) and they seem to have not changed (unless counting Groin's incident). Now on to another issue...

And that is the soldier whom Erbrand fought with (possibly killed). First, one general thing, which you might have figured out already if you were reading the above. In Groin's post, the soldier he wounded or killed or whatever was called "Scyld". Everybody on this thread has been hereafter talking about him as "Scyld". Of course. But from all that has been said in Groin's post and then also on this thread, I think he just meant Scyrr. Scyld is some soldier from the original Mead Hall, originally Firefoot's character, if I am not mistaken. Scyrr is this "bad" NPC guy of Athanar's household. Given that Erbrand said "I killed one of Athanar's soldiers", I assume Groin meant Scyrr, not Scyld.

That's just so to clear things up. Speaking of this, I would add a general reminder, as I have been thinking about something like that also a long time ago already. Whenever you are writing for somebody and you are not 100% sure about his identity, go and check the first page of the discussion thread. Most of the characters are described there (speaking of which maybe I, or somebody, could indeed make a bio also for these Áforglaeds and co. In any case, Scyld's bio is there if nothing else, so it should've been clear that he is not Scyrr).

And to the thing that has been asked here:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think it all depends on whether Groin wishes to continue writing this and then wants to take something back

Indeed I simply think we should go with that, like I said, and wait a while for Groin.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Actually I think now that if he doesn't wish to come back we should at least try to think how we could deal with it and not bother Pio. We can take the post as his last challenge for us to overcome together.

And what a challenge would it be! A murder and a get-away! Erbrand and Lithor would be declared outlaws by king Eomer for manslaughter - and making peace with the two groups would be much harder (it wasn't looking hard already?) as lord Athanar and those coming with him would now think the "original MeadHallers" as murderers... for a reason.

(...)

I can say readily that Stigend (and probably Garstan as well) would be appalled and reconsider what they thought of Erbrand... and looking at how Lithor behaved... also him. They had honoured them both but would now... well, reconsider to say the least.

How about the character's of you others?

(...)

Heh, a funny idea... is there a thing that brings people together better than a common enemy? No there isn't.

So could Erbrand and Lithor (and Scyld) work as scapegoats to all the possible rivalries thus uniting the people? It would of course not be as easy or straightforwards as that, but in the end that might be actually believable...

What do you think?

Well, not that it didn't occur to me when I read it, a swift party sent to pursuit of the two fellows, but then, I think it's a bit over the top. From my part, I would rather want to avoid that. Just lay it to rest. Although there will be simply this "legend of two deserters" and now that would probably really just contribute to differenciating opinions (if I sort of exaggerate it, the worst two extremes would be "You old-Scarburgians are murderers and deserters!" and "Erbrand and Lithor were an example of honourable resistance against oppression! To arms!"). If Groin does not come back or make some changes there, I would prefer some other solution. But I would like him to come back, firstly.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Maybe, but I think there's enough doubt in it that we can say Erbrand thought he was dead, but he turned out not to be. If I were one of the two women, I would not bring back the dead body of a full grown man. That would be tough, plus gross.

And indeed. In the question "so is the guy dead or not", I would think he is not: it seems like that from Groin's account, and by all logic - the women would not carry him in, but ran in yelling "there is a dead soldier" if he was in really bad condition. They'd even call for help probably if he was very badly wounded, but since there are two women bringing him back, it implies actually that he is able to almost walk, so actually his state won't be even that bad, I think.

But anyway all in all, this whole scenario with two people attacking each other like that seems a bit over the top to me from the beginning.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Fea, are you around?

Not in any meaningful way. I'm trying to keep up with the discussion thread, but I haven't had a chance to read the story thread in ages. Being sick for so long (strep followed immediately by a cold that turned into bronchitis (which caused two weeks of laryngitis), with a nice healthy dose of shingles all while I was in Boston during Bostonmoot and going to school all day every day for ten days straight) killed my extra energy. And then, since I couldn't go to work lest I infect the children with chicken pox, I had to re-plan all my work so that it could be effectively done without me present (I have new appreciation for what teachers experience planning for subs), plus I just started a new semester and I'm trying to stay on top of the 45 or so pages of writing I've got to send in to a new faculty mentor each month. Oh, and I'm trying to start a writing program for local kids without any similar programs to build off of. And I'm in the process of buying my first car.

Which is all to say...

I'm trying to keep up with discussion and general plot, but actually reading what you guys are writing won't happen for a while, and my foreseeable writing future is dedicating itself to school for a little while.

Oh my god, when I write my life down like that it looks horrible. Haha.

Basically, I fully intend to be back, I'm just not sure when I can be back for real, if you follow me. I'm finally feeling healthy again (my voice has almost come back entirely), so now it's just a matter of catching up on everything (I'm almost caught up) and then scheduling my life so that there's time for everything.

And then you'll have me again.

In the mean time, if you need me or want my opinion or want to bounce ideas off me, either Facebook me or PM me or IM me with a Sparknotes version of what's happening and I'll get back to you within a day.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Foley

we forgot Aedre altogether

Well, I didn't... But it was clear lord Athanar would not wish to draw her there into any discussions. What he (and Wynflaed) would do with Aedre would be their personal decision - and a private one.

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Heh, I think if Athanar would be "an ironfisted" leader (as Groin so nicely puts it) he would just have announced the sentence after the breakfast, and it probably wouldn't have been such a considerate one either.


And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Okay. The mini-novel called Lithor's hearing will be posted soonish...

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Groin

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Why, thank you, sir! I'm glad I did not offend.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Yeah, that's how I see it. I figure that if someone hit the president's daughter in a schoolyard fight there would be more to-do than if the same bully had hit someone else's daughter. Of course, vastly different situation and rulers and courts and stuff, but still...that's where I'm coming from.

And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Right. I think that if I were writing an eorl it would be much different. I'm glad Nogrod is writing Athanar. He's turning out fairly nice-ish.

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Alright, I'll bite my tongue.... absolute power corrupts absolutely!

[Nogrod]

Okay! It's finally there!

Three cheers to you Foley and Groin (and Lommy)! It was so much fun to write that together!


PS. Did you know Groin that that quote of yours concerning absolute power corrupting is by lord Acton? A fitting title in this context.