Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

Thanks for reminding us about the characters of Aforglaed and Scyrr, Legate! I think many of us forgot a host of things in the thick of things running amok back there - at least I did.

But now I think it's up to you Legate to decide - as you have been the main writer for Scyrr - whether his actions in Groin's last post were ones he would take.

If they are out of bounds for Scyrr, we can probably change some things with Pio's help without totally deleting the post. If you come up with a reason why they would fight, then great (we can then just change a few lines from their speeches). If there is none, then we'll have to edit a bit more to make Erbrand and Lithor run away without Erbrand beliving he killed someone. I think both things are doable.

Originally Posted by Legate

if Nog especially you think that the folks look weird from Athanar's POV, I would like to hear that, as the point is of course his perspective... but you didn't seem to protest in the beginning (quite the opposite) and they seem to have not changed (unless counting Groin's incident)

There's no problem if there are one or two problematic characters - well whatever from the list of: dislikeable, hot-headed, brutal, proud, non-considerate, prejudiced, rude, idiot, aggressive, self-centered, warmonger, villaneous, vile, brutal... whatever. As you said there probably have been a host of that kind of guys in the military through ages (and I'm not saying Aforglaed or Scyrr would be especially bad). But at some point it seemed that all the characters who were written belonging to lord Athanar's retinue were that kind of guys - while of course all the old Scarburgians were the "good guys". Well Groin had a lot to do with that impression building up. So it was starting to feel that enough is enough.

The feeling I was getting at one time was that lord Athanar was surrounded by a mob of scroundels. And that would not do. Even if some (many) of our characters in the Mead Hall would dislike the newcomers to begin with (which they really should do), that doesn't mean the writers of the Mead Hall should start painting lord Athanar's retinue as a bunch of villains. They're still eorlinga, probably more like from the "better end" of them.

Now happily Foley has taken this new character Quin who's already a different character.


I do agree with you Legate that there should be no major "hunting-party" to go after Lithor and Erbrand - especially as Scyrr is still alive and not probably even so badly hurt. I think people of the Mead Hall would be informed that the two had left - and it will be interesting to hear how different characters will react to that. In due time - like the next time there is a courier to pass messages between the MH and Edoras - lord Athanar will inform king Eomer about a deserter soldier and that's it - I think. Erbrand sure is free to go, and beating someone up probably isn't a crime that would lead into major search-parties in the ME, but a soldier leaving his duty might warrant some notification - not that he would be actively searched for but if met somewhere he would be brought to face justice for deserting his post.

That's how I would see it - and hopefully / probably we need not bother with those issues if and when Lithor and Erbrand just are away.

[Folwren]

Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that Groin responded.

So...does this mean that soon we can move forward and start working with what he wrote in his post and how it affects our characters? For instance, Thornden saw Lithor leaving, I think that will warrant some action in his place, be it to tell Coenred, or for him to excuse himself and try to ride after them, or what.

But, I don't want to start doing that until others (Nogrod, Fea, Nerindel, Gwathagor) get a chance to write at least something.

-- Foley

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But now I think it's up to you Legate to decide - as you have been the main writer for Scyrr - whether his actions in Groin's last post were ones he would take.

Well, Scyrr is still an NPC - although a bit of "the" NPC as he was one of the few representatives of Athanar's soldiers in the beginning. I don't want to edit Groin's post or anything just because of him, at least not too much. Of course it seems a bit over the top at some moments, namely the start when the soldier throws a stone at Erbrand and then later the thing about the knife. But if we want to keep it like it is, maybe we could come up with some reasons for why the soldier would act like he did.

The initiation of the fight could have been explainable, and after all, it was Erbrand who really started the fight itself. Scyrr could have had good reasons to provoke him, even perhaps to throw the stone (if it was a bit of an impulsive action slightly "over the top" where Scyrr just didn't think of the consequences). Bullying locals would not seem out of character: from Scyrr's point of view, Erbrand is alone (i.e. in his opinion harmless) and stinks (a good thing to start mocking him about). Scyrr is generally thinking negatively about the locals, he probably dislikes being transferred to this middle of nowhere, he is the type who complains about everything and now the first impression is still fresh, so he had a long journey yesterday, his friend got beaten and the one who did it was not punished (unjust outcome, from Scyrr's point of view), Scyrr maybe drank a lot yesterday and now he did not get enough sleep today and the barracks are too small and he is supposed to go to training after this, add to this that he is simply in bad mood today and it's early in the morning and tada, we have a good basis for him to want to be nasty to any Scarburgian who appears nearby. And of all the people, the one who shows up is Erbrand, who is here with his stinking stuff and dares to gainsay to Scyrr, especially in front of for example Ginna, who is, after all, an attractive young woman. Scyrr would not have it, but he does not know Erbrand's temper, and before he can stop (there has been the warning from Coen about brawling after all), they are in the middle of a fight which turns out to be unstoppable.

The part where Scyrr draws a knife I'm also wondering about. We could perhaps pass it if we close one eye, as much as with the former. At least it was at the time when Erbrand was already threatening to break Scyrr's leg (from what I have gathered from the post), thus, once again it might have been an impulsive reaction - we may count in the fact that just before that, the women screamed "stop, you will kill him", which might have triggered something in Scyrr's mind: "kill" - is he going to kill me? - knife! And there it came.

So that'd be for the mind analysis (I should become a psychologist it seems) My main concern is how it would be possible for a soldier like that, who has been warned particularly not to start any brawls, and who had been under Athanar's command possibly for years, to do what he did. I think we could really sum it in two basic ideas, first: Scyrr was a bit of a bully to begin with, but of course he kept himself in line as a soldier as not to get himself into trouble; second: the fact that he did what he did now is simply that moving into a new place was such a shock for him (maybe he never left Edoras before?) and the people just annoyed him immensely. Unfortunate set of coincidenes unforeseen by Athanar or Coen, who might have hoped that Scyrr (if he was already noticed as being on the "low end" of Athanar's men) would get more "fresh air" here and become more "tame" instead, but quite the opposite happened.

I do agree with you Legate that there should be no major "hunting-party" to go after Lithor and Erbrand - especially as Scyrr is still alive and not probably even so badly hurt. I think people of the Mead Hall would be informed that the two had left - and it will be interesting to hear how different characters will react to that. In due time - like the next time there is a courier to pass messages between the MH and Edoras - lord Athanar will inform king Eomer about a deserter soldier and that's it - I think. Erbrand sure is free to go, and beating someone up probably isn't a crime that would lead into major search-parties in the ME, but a soldier leaving his duty might warrant some notification - not that he would be actively searched for but if met somewhere he would be brought to face justice for deserting his post.

Indeed. In the end, it seems that Scyrr was only almost strangled to death, but not quite. And when it comes to it, even the wedge between the "old" and "new" Scarburg created by this does not need to have to be so strong as I have initially thought. In fact, there needs not to be any at all: people can have different opinions (hasn't Erbrand always been a bit rash? Why would he flee if it was all the soldier's fault? Etc. And on the other hand, Athanar's men probably know that Scyrr is a bit of a bully if he is one).

So in other words, I think it's the best to leave it like it is and indeed take it as an opportunity, if Groin's decision is as it is. After all, he can even return at least with Erbrand later, if he wants to. And I think we can leave his post without editing as he wished - unless the people posting for the other characters acting there appear and wish to edit that...