Aredhel the bad girl?

[Aredhel The White]

Thank you, Pitchwife, for your very kind welcoming words I am sure this forum will be marvelous for my English as same as for my Tolkienistic soul! :O)

[Faramir Jones]

Dear Aredhel, welcome to the Downs! I was very interested in your analysis of your elvish namesake; and my contribution to this debate is that no, I think Aredhel was 'unwise' rather than 'bad'. Her behaviour, both in terms of wanting to go where she wanted and marrying Eöl, was certainly unwise; but that lack of wisdom ran in the family, in particular in her Uncle Fëanor, who directly caused the deaths of so many fellow Elves.

One of the few Elves of that generation who seemed to gain wisdom over the years was Aredhel's cousin Galadriel, who renounced her chance of taking the One Ring, and who was accepted back into Valinor as a result.

Lindolirian, I don't think Wormtongue was an idiot. Saruman would not have chosen such a person to carry out his delicate plans to undermine Rohan. His plan was to undermine the kingdom by undermining Theoden, but to do so in a delicate manner. The way to do this, both by words and by mild poisons, was to ensure that Theoden would give orders that reduced Rohan's ability to defend itself; but he would not give orders that were either mad, or illegal or unconstitutional; so there would be no case to either set up a regency or dethrone him.

[Morwen]

For me, Aredhel's mistake with respect to Gondolin begins with her decision to go with her brother when he reveals to her that he has plans to build a secret kingdom in a hidden valley and never intends to leave. Given that wandering far and wide is something that she loved since Valinor, it didn't require elven foresight to see that a cloistered existence was not the best thing for her.
I think that her decision, well demand really, to leave is undeniably selfish (she is putting her needs above the safety and security of an entire kingdom). But I do sympathise with her a bit at this point. The need to wander is a longstanding trait for her. It is not something that suddenly manifests itself as a result of being in Gondolin.Having made what is for her a bad decision, she is stuck with either living it (which given elven lifespans would be a daunting prospect) or selfishly demanding an out.
Having opted to leave Gondolin I do think that she ought to have stayed gone. I've a hard time sympathising with her here. She perhaps (mistakenly) thought that she could be happy in Gondolin the first time. Did she think the second time round would be the charm? Even if Eol had not followed her to Gondolin, would she have been happy there indefinitely (or at least until her evil seed child betrayed the kingdom)?
Ultimately I don't think she is to blame for the fall of Gondolin. I think more direct blame can be laid at the feet of Maeglin for his actions and also Turgon for his inaction. I do agree though that Aredhel is an interesting character.

[Aredhel The White]

reply to Faramir:
Must agree most of Exilians were unwise. Probably all the wise stayed in Aman ;O)

Mention that was their fate since they let Valinor.
As Faramir said, by Feanaro acts and decisions. The had a chance to change their fate until Herold said to him what happend to those who will go. War, death and no mention the beauty and good thing they will do, they will turn into shadows and big saddness will find their kind...
Ofcourse for example Fingolfin feeled he had to go, because he unfortunatelly swear his loyalty to Feanor not a long time before.
Nods, Galadriel was very wise. It is said that 'cause she had a blood of all three kinds of Eldar (Vanya by her grandmother Indis, Teleri by her mother Eärwen, rest Noldor) she was especially noble and royal. Also, she was able to enter Doriath and teached by Maia Melian a lot (with touch of guiltines because of Killing in Alqualonde). Compaired to, Ared spended most or her time with selfis flaming Feanorians she had similar temper to I think, yes, she was selfish and unwise, dont think she was bad or immoral.

[Aredhel The White]

Originally Posted by Morwen

For me, Aredhel's mistake with respect to Gondolin begins with her decision to go with her brother when he reveals to her that he has plans to build a secret kingdom in a hidden valley and never intends to leave. Given that wandering far and wide is something that she loved since Valinor, it didn't require elven foresight to see that a cloistered existence was not the best thing for her.

The trouble I think is that Gondolin was a mirror of Tirion upon Tuna. Elven city where Noldor used to live before left and many of them were realy loving it and composing songs about it beeing in ME (Like in the Galadriel song). So, mirroring Tirion by their the best, Gondolin was also the most beautiful city in whole Middle Earth. A place to use all the crafts and skills of Noldor. Going to and build Tirion again as secret project could be very interesting for her, or she feeled she dont want to leave Turgon maybe (how old was Idril in that days? Crossing Helcaraxe she was a child, her mother died and so Aredhel, as Turgons sister could also take a part of her nurture).
Yes, maybe more foreseeing Eldar than her should care and tell her better to stay on "open air" since she would be unhappy. Other task is, if stubbornly Ared would listen to them

Originally Posted by Morwen

Having opted to leave Gondolin I do think that she ought to have stayed gone. I've a hard time sympathising with her here. She perhaps (mistakenly) thought that she could be happy in Gondolin the first time. Did she think the second time round would be the charm? Even if Eol had not followed her to Gondolin, would she have been happy there indefinitely (or at least until her evil seed child betrayed the kingdom)?

Maeglin wanted to see treausures of Noldor, and she wanted to show him that small rest of Noldor nobility beauties she could. Fate of Noldor, said by Herold of Valar was that Valar will not let them come back and they will have to stay in ME till die... so no chance take Maeglin into Valinor with her. Also I think, she could decide that Gondolin is only place where they could be safe when Eöl finds out they left him. She knew the way bact to Goldolin and to the cousins kingdome not far from Elmoth. Maybe she did not know how to travel to ... for example ... Fingons or Maedhros mannor and while on escape, she needed to move quickly.
Also, secret of Gondolin is the most safe in Gondolin itselve. And Gondolin was temporary project, so few more hundered years, maybe she thought, could survive

This is not an exuse, just could be some of her reasons

[Aredhel The White]

BTW.
I realy thing one of ideas hidden in the story, maybe not so clear dercribed in Silmarillion but a little cleaner in other sources (remember something in The Lays of Beleriand and The Book of Lost Tales no.2 ... maybe elsewhere too, It is a long while since I saw that books) is that...
Morgoth may posibly and somehow "use" Eöl and Aredhel to give a birth to Maeglin or maybe to create that two cursed swords.
Eöl, trapped in distant past in young days of Eldar by Morgoth ... than somehow set free... apears in Doriath... from nowhere... and is found as old and distant relation with Elu Thingol.
Finds higly strange "stone" ... meterorit... fallen... from unknown material. There is not said it is Varda's fallen star, so it could be Morgoth's trap as well.
Makes two swords and both of them has dirty fate. Especially Anglachel, sword given to Thingol as tier, than given to Turin Turambar. It may be partly a guild of sword, that Turambar's fate is so sad.

Aredhel... is lost in Ered Gorgorth. Earlier this place was the same as place where Eol was living in (Taur na Fuin). It is very dangerous land, full of Servants of Enemy.
Her companions has severe problems, lost her, must fight for their lives and must go back. She... safely pass Ered Gorgoroth (twice ... on the way back with her son too).
So she ~could~ (only a hypothesis ;o) ) be enchantered by evil powers to fell in love (or sort of fallen relationship ;o) ) with Eol, or the powers there could find she is ideal candidate for it anyway...

What do you think about this my theory?