How many Rangers of the North were there ?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I wish I had but the slightest idea what you're talking about...

Good to see I wasn't the only one flummoxed by that. I thought at first it could be a reference to the PJ movies, but I didn't remember even PJ making up events in something called the 'Rift'.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Good to see I wasn't the only one flummoxed by that. I thought at first it could be a reference to the PJ movies, but I didn't remember even PJ making up events in something called the 'Rift'.

I imagine that it's something to do with the Lord of the Rings Online Game.

Back to the substance of the thread:

The North Kingdom was effectively discontinued in T.A. 1975, most probably because there were too few Dunedain left. Also at the time I imagine that they were scattered and in disarray after the fall of Fornost to the Witch King.

I'm not sure how big Fornost or Annuminas were - they were perhaps nowhere near as large as Minas Tirith - but I imagine that they would have required several thousand citizens, at least, to be viable cities.

That places an upper limit on how many Dunedain of the North lived in Eriador. If there were still thousands of them then they might have tried to re-establish at least one of the cities.

[Snowdog]

A lot of conjecture here and opinions and such. Michael Martinez covers a lot of the 'what ifs' and 'I thinks' in his writings on the Dunedain, and I myself have a somewhat non-canonical interpretation of them based on some RP and stories I've written over the years. But for a moment, let's look at what Tolkien wrote on the Dunedain Rangers in the various books...

Few now remember them ... yet still some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless. Tom Bombadil … The Fellowship of the Ring I - Fog on the Barrow-downs

Rangers - The Dúnedain of the North after the fall of the North Kingdom, secret guardians of Eriador (Unfinished Tales, index)

They came to Sarn Ford and the southernmost borders of the Shire. They found them guarded, for the Rangers barred their way.……some fled northward … Some still dared to bar the ford and held it while the day lasted. (Unfinished Tales, The Hunt for the Ring)

…the Dúnedain of the North, ……..a strange people wandering secretly in the wild, and other men knew not their homes nor the purpose of their journeys, and save in Imladris, in the House of Elrond, their ancestry was forgotten.(Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)

When the kingdom ended the Dúnedain passed into the shadows and became a secret and wandering people, and their deeds and labours were seldom sung or recorded. Little is now remembered of them since Elrond departed.... (Lord of the Rings, Appendix A)

in the wild lands beyond Bree there were mysterious wanderers. The Bree folk called them Rangers and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree and were believed to have strange powers of sight and hearing, and to understand the language of beasts and birds. They roamed at will southwards and eastwards even as far as the Misty Mountains; but they were now few and rarely seen. (Lord of the Rings, At the Sign of the Prancing Pony)

Aragorn said of the land and his abilities:

There is food in the wild,’ said Strider ‘berry, root and herb; and I have some skill as a hunter at need.’ (Lord of the Rings, A Knife in the Dark)

’Rangers have been here lately. It is they who left the firewood behind.’(Lord of the Rings, A Knife in the Dark)

Halbarad said:

‘I have thirty with me.’ said Halbarad ‘That is all of our kindred that could be gathered in haste; (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)

A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired;…….There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear or harness; nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star. (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)

If there is more written specifically about the Dunedain of the North and they being Rangers by Tolkien, I would like to know.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired;…….There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear or harness; nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star. (Lord of the Rings, The Passing of the Grey Company)

...but if I see any silver rayed-star brooches, I'll snap one up....

[Snowdog]

Yeah, that would be cool eh. I wonder how big they are.

[Erendis]

I don't remember who said that the lack of patrolling in Bree and the Shire after the summoning of the Grey Company indicates that they were too few and possibly lessened after the attack at Sarn Ford,but this attack was done before the Hobbits reached the Pancing Pony.

Of cource ,the answer to that is that it happened only ONE week before.However,if the Rangers fighting in Sarn Ford were such a number that their defeat caused such an elimination,wouldn't this gathering be mentionned by somebody-implying Burlyman-?No matter how vast Eriador was,if they were rarely seen,wouldn't a team of at least 30 be, a surprise?Because according to this theory the warriors must have been 100 or so.But if so,how did these people manage to survive through almost half an Age of attacks,plagues,the Winter and who knows what else having so few defenders?

Bearing in mind that Ghudaband is quite close,a population of several hundreds defending their own households seems a rather logical explanation.

[Snowdog]

I think the speculation on numbers of the Northern Dunedain, and their battle-worthy male population of Rangers, comes from the fact their "numbers were too few" to re-establish a kingdom after the fall of the Witch-king in third age 1975, and only 'thirty (Rangers) could be gathered in haste' in third age 3019. Factoring in they 'kept their blood pure', and there was enough men and women to procreate through the years, and they logically wouldn't have left the homelands completely devoid of fighting men, one could assume from all this that maybe there were 50 to maybe 80 or so Rangers in total, and many more Dunedain people when the elderly, women, and children are factored in. Yet they were a 'wandering people' so they didn't have towns... it does make for quite a puzzle.